"I'll Keep Coming." | Death Stranding, A Kojima Productions Thread

I re-watched the MGS4 ending.

I feel sad now.

Sad because Hideo put his name on that piece of shit amirite?

I re-watched the MGS4 ending.

I feel sad now.

Sad because Hideo put his name on that piece of shit amirite?

It wasn't that bad. There were a handful of cool moments.

Though, my main gripe with the game is finding out

Spoiler

Ocelot wasn't possessed by Liquid after all.

There's a whole bunch of reasons why explaining it away with nanomachines was a terrible idea.

I like it really because like Eva said, Ocelot loves Big Boss and would do anything to try and make his goal a reality.

Though I don't understand why he and Eva conflict with one another, it confuses me.

I like it really because like Eva said, Ocelot loves Big Boss and would do anything to try and make his goal a reality.

Though I don't understand why he and Eva conflict with one another, it confuses me.

They have conflicting ideas as to what Big Boss wanted. Both knew he wanted a world where soldiers would be appreciated, but Ocelot had a much more brutal and extreme end goal in mind than Eva, one that would put him in control of the planet.

Also, Ocelot tried to kill her surrogate son. That'd put a twist in any parent's panties.

It wasn't that bad.

Yeah, it was.

It's the Halo 3 of MGS.

It's the Halo 3 of MGS.

Halo 3 wasn't that bad either.

Halo 2, on the other hand...

It's the Halo 3 of MGS.

Halo 3 wasn't that bad either.

Halo 2, on the other hand...

Then it's the Halo 2 of MGS.

It's bad, dude.

Like, there are a handful of things I enjoy about the game...

but it's stuff like "I like the sound of the M4" and shit.

Small stuff.

Oh my god both of you shut up

Oh my god both of you shut up

It's a Metal Gear thread...

and it's been like 10 minutes since the last reply.

I like it really because like Eva said, Ocelot loves Big Boss and would do anything to try and make his goal a reality.

Though I don't understand why he and Eva conflict with one another, it confuses me.

They have conflicting ideas as to what Big Boss wanted. Both knew he wanted a world where soldiers would be appreciated, but Ocelot had a much more brutal and extreme end goal in mind than Eva, one that would put him in control of the planet.

Also, Ocelot tried to kill her surrogate son. That'd put a twist in any parent's panties.

I suppose so yeah. Still, I guess Ocelot went batshit crazy in the end. Much like Big Boss did at the end of his life (MG2).

Oh my god both of you shut up

It's a Metal Gear thread...

and it's been like 10 minutes since the last reply.

...

shut up

Like, there are a handful of things I enjoy about the game...

but it's stuff like "I like the sound of the M4" and shit.

Small stuff.

Yeah, but it gave Raiden a personality beyond being a(n intentional) poor man's Snake. Also, the last two boss fights were really cool.

Like, there are a handful of things I enjoy about the game...

but it's stuff like "I like the sound of the M4" and shit.

Small stuff.

Yeah, but it gave Raiden a personality beyond being a(n intentional) poor man's Snake. Also, the last two boss fights were really cool.

Sure. I'll give you the boss fights.

But Raiden having a personality only provides further proof to support my opinion that MGS4 ruins MGS2, and effectively Solid Snake as a character.

Big Boss was always more dynamic anyway

but yeah, seeing Snake slowly die off in MGS4 was very sad, and he lost all the charisma he had in MGS2 (rightfully so I guess since he's almost dead).

Big Boss was always more dynamic anyway

I've always liked Solid Snake more, actually.

My favourite character is Ocelot, though.

but yeah, seeing Snake slowly die off in MGS4 was very sad, and he lost all the charisma he had in MGS2 (rightfully so I guess since he's almost dead).

There are times when I see glimpses of the character he used to be. Like the briefing after you meet up with Mei Ling. He's funny in that cutscene.

And I don't particularly have anything against a game showing Solid Snake getting old and dying. It just needs better execution.

For example, he needs to look like this. And he needs to not commit character suicide by NOT killing himself. There's no reason for that, we all know the David we see in Metal Gear Solid and MGS2 would have no problem shooting himself in the brain if the mission called for it.

Like, there are a handful of things I enjoy about the game...

but it's stuff like "I like the sound of the M4" and shit.

Small stuff.

Yeah, but it gave Raiden a personality beyond being a(n intentional) poor man's Snake. Also, the last two boss fights were really cool.

Sure. I'll give you the boss fights.

But Raiden having a personality only provides further proof to support my opinion that MGS4 ruins MGS2, and effectively Solid Snake as a character.

MGS2's main plot involved Raiden seeking his own identity past what the Patriots gave him and his attempts to imitate Snake. MGS4 is a continuation of that; he's become his own man and stepped out of Snake's shadow (and into Gray Fox's, but that was likely also intentional).

Rising, on the other hand, ruined the whole damn point by making him all angry and angst-ridden again after he got over that at the end of 4. "I never need to kill again. BUT OH WAIT LEMME JUST KILL SOME MORE DUDES REAL QUICK."

MGS2's main plot involved Raiden seeking his own identity past what the Patriots gave him and his attempts to imitate Snake.

Not really, because Raiden is a non-character. He's literally supposed to be the player. That's the whole point of MGS2.

So making him an actual character kind of goes backwards on that idea.

MGS2's main plot involved Raiden seeking his own identity past what the Patriots gave him and his attempts to imitate Snake.

Not really, because Raiden is a non-character. He's literally supposed to be the player. That's the whole point of MGS2.

So making him an actual character kind of goes backwards on that idea.

That was done away with at the end of the game. Hence, him tossing the dog tags away, symbolically shedding the player's control over him and becoming his own person with his own identity and his own life beyond reiterating Snake's battle in Shadow Moses.

Which is another thing I dislike about Rising - you're not supposed to control Raiden. That defeats the entire point.

Anything that takes place after MGS2 in the continuity is shit. Both Rising and Patriots are insults.

Hence, him tossing the dog tags away, symbolically shedding the player's control over him and becoming his own person with his own identity and his own life beyond reiterating Snake's battle in Shadow Moses.

Hmm...

I never took it like that. I always assumed that MGS2's entire point was Kojima trying to teach the players a lesson about hype and such (hence the sneaky marketing tactics and stuff). And that the throwing away of the dog tags was a symbolic gesture for the players learning their lesson, and giving up control of the character and the control of hype.

I think it may be time to replay MGS2...

Anything that takes place after MGS2 in the continuity is shit. Both Rising and Patriots are insults.

Hence, him tossing the dog tags away, symbolically shedding the player's control over him and becoming his own person with his own identity and his own life beyond reiterating Snake's battle in Shadow Moses.

Hmm...

I never took it like that. I always assumed that MGS2's entire point was Kojima trying to teach the players a lesson about hype and such (hence the sneaky marketing tactics and stuff). And that the throwing away of the dog tags was a symbolic gesture for the players learning their lesson, and giving up control of the character and the control of hype.

I think it may be time to replay MGS2...

MGS2 was a commentary on a lot of things. Marketing, control of information, the nature of free will, linearity, trying to be someone you're not, and sequels in general. Raiden, as you said, represents the player, who is in turn under the control of the game's developers (represented by the Patriots). The developers manipulated the player before the game even came out by making it seem like they'd be getting another game with Snake, only for them to get stuck with a second-rate copy instead. Controlling what information one receives changes the entire nature of one's perceptions of reality.

The developers force the player to toady along the paths that they coded into the game, represented by Raiden being forced to toady along to the paths the Patriots set for him. He tries to be as badass as Snake, but screws up at every turn - much like how the player played the first game to feel as badass as Snake, but will never really be as great as him.

Raiden tries to match Snake's adventure in MGS, but it's really just a hollow imitation - much like how a lot of game sequels are just more of what the previous game had to offer, because why change what worked well last time? Meanwhile, the real Snake is off having a much more significant and interesting adventure of his own against a much more significant and interesting adversary.

Notably, the game continues the idea of experience trumping circumstance of birth, only weaponized: Raiden was a seemingly ordinary rookie soldier tossed into a situation in which he was supposed to become as amazing as Snake by repeating Snake's greatest battle, while Solidus was made to be a perfect copy of the greatest soldier who ended up being rather insignificant in the long run.

At the end of the day, Sons of Liberty was intentionally an inferior, repackaged Metal Gear Solid - similar plot, similar setting, a new protagonist that tries to imitate the old one, and the player will keep on playing anyway even if they know this. They're being controlled just as much as Raiden. Nothing he knows is real - his mission, his allies, his backstory - the things that most players take at face value and never think twice about, because why would there be any reason to disbelieve it? Why wouldn't you trust what you're told and blindly obey each order given to you? Both he and the player start to realize what's going on toward the end of the game, and that's when he gains his own traits and thoughts. It all culminates in him casting away his link to the player - the dog tags they wrote their name on at the start of the game.

You guys are so obsessed

MGS2 was a commentary on a lot of things. Marketing, control of information, the nature of free will, linearity, trying to be someone you're not, and sequels in general. Raiden, as you said, represents the player, who is in turn under the control of the game's developers (represented by the Patriots). The developers manipulated the player before the game even came out by making it seem like they'd be getting another game with Snake, only for them to get stuck with a second-rate copy instead. Controlling what information one receives changes the entire nature of one's perceptions of reality.

The developers force the player to toady along the paths that they coded into the game, represented by Raiden being forced to toady along to the paths the Patriots set for him. He tries to be as badass as Snake, but screws up at every turn - much like how the player played the first game to feel as badass as Snake, but will never really be as great as him.

Raiden tries to match Snake's adventure in MGS, but it's really just a hollow imitation - much like how a lot of game sequels are just more of what the previous game had to offer, because why change what worked well last time? Meanwhile, the real Snake is off having a much more significant and interesting adventure of his own against a much more significant and interesting adversary.

Notably, the game continues the idea of experience trumping circumstance of birth, only weaponized: Raiden was a seemingly ordinary rookie soldier tossed into a situation in which he was supposed to become as amazing as Snake by repeating Snake's greatest battle, while Solidus was made to be a perfect copy of the greatest soldier who ended up being rather insignificant in the long run.

At the end of the day, Sons of Liberty was intentionally an inferior, repackaged Metal Gear Solid - similar plot, similar setting, a new protagonist that tries to imitate the old one, and the player will keep on playing anyway even if they know this. They're being controlled just as much as Raiden. Nothing he knows is real - his mission, his allies, his backstory - the things that most players take at face value and never think twice about, because why would there be any reason to disbelieve it? Why wouldn't you trust what you're told and blindly obey each order given to you? Both he and the player start to realize what's going on toward the end of the game, and that's when he gains his own traits and thoughts. It all culminates in him casting away his link to the player - the dog tags they wrote their name on at the start of the game.

Preaching to the choir, homes.

Well-written comment, though. Mind if I save that for future uses?

You guys are so obsessed

Well. Yeah. I love the game <.< over a 1000 hours and counting.

MGS2 was a commentary on a lot of things. Marketing, control of information, the nature of free will, linearity, trying to be someone you're not, and sequels in general. Raiden, as you said, represents the player, who is in turn under the control of the game's developers (represented by the Patriots). The developers manipulated the player before the game even came out by making it seem like they'd be getting another game with Snake, only for them to get stuck with a second-rate copy instead. Controlling what information one receives changes the entire nature of one's perceptions of reality.

The developers force the player to toady along the paths that they coded into the game, represented by Raiden being forced to toady along to the paths the Patriots set for him. He tries to be as badass as Snake, but screws up at every turn - much like how the player played the first game to feel as badass as Snake, but will never really be as great as him.

Raiden tries to match Snake's adventure in MGS, but it's really just a hollow imitation - much like how a lot of game sequels are just more of what the previous game had to offer, because why change what worked well last time? Meanwhile, the real Snake is off having a much more significant and interesting adventure of his own against a much more significant and interesting adversary.

Notably, the game continues the idea of experience trumping circumstance of birth, only weaponized: Raiden was a seemingly ordinary rookie soldier tossed into a situation in which he was supposed to become as amazing as Snake by repeating Snake's greatest battle, while Solidus was made to be a perfect copy of the greatest soldier who ended up being rather insignificant in the long run.

At the end of the day, Sons of Liberty was intentionally an inferior, repackaged Metal Gear Solid - similar plot, similar setting, a new protagonist that tries to imitate the old one, and the player will keep on playing anyway even if they know this. They're being controlled just as much as Raiden. Nothing he knows is real - his mission, his allies, his backstory - the things that most players take at face value and never think twice about, because why would there be any reason to disbelieve it? Why wouldn't you trust what you're told and blindly obey each order given to you? Both he and the player start to realize what's going on toward the end of the game, and that's when he gains his own traits and thoughts. It all culminates in him casting away his link to the player - the dog tags they wrote their name on at the start of the game.

Preaching to the choir, homes.

Well-written comment, though. Mind if I save that for future uses?

Go ahead. I figured you'd know about it already, but I'd already written most of it and didn't want to waste the effort.

You guys are so obsessed

Well. Yeah. I love the game <.< over a 1000 hours and counting.

Heh

<.<

>.>

I figured you'd know about it already, but I'd already written most of it and didn't want to waste the effort.

Gotcha.

I think MGS2 is where my MG knowledge gets a little rusty. I haven't played it since... a couple of years, now. I didn't like playing as Raiden, I guess.

You really have no idea how hyped I am. In the past 2 weeks I've played Ground Zeroes about 6 times, completing every mission on hard and getting S-Ranks. I've platinumed MGS3 twice. I got GZ to 100% in like 3 days. I watch the trailers every day. I give my Punished Snake figure a new pose every day. My brain can't handle the thought of it being nearly out. I CAN'T WAIT.


I CAN'T. FUCKING. WAIT.

All right calm down, relax start breathing...

You really have no idea how hyped I am. In the past 2 weeks I've played Ground Zeroes about 6 times, completing every mission on hard and getting S-Ranks. I've platinumed MGS3 twice. I got GZ to 100% in like 3 days. I watch the trailers every day. I give my Punished Snake figure a new pose every day. My brain can't handle the thought of it being nearly out. I CAN'T WAIT.


I CAN'T. FUCKING. WAIT.

All right calm down, relax start breathing...

I would also play MG~MGS if I were you. These games will be connecting the two character arcs...

Which I'm sure you know. But if you're looking for something to sink your teeth into...