Destiny; The Tower Facelift!?

jobanVpistol · September 26, 2014, 06:10:53 PM

A Brief Disclaimer
I wanted to start by saying this isn't about jumping on the Destiny 'complain train'. I'm really enjoying what it has to offer despite some tweaks they've recognised for themselves. I joined Sep7agon today and it's good to find somewhere to discuss topics with mature people as opposed to the other forum that shall not be named.

Aaaanyway Back On Topic!
The Tower! I studied Graphic Design at uni' (10 years ago :s) so I'm always on the look out for anything that's pleasing to the eye and for the most part Destiny is a good-looking game BUT... The Tower itself seems somewhat lacking visually, simply stroking the Iris not punching me in the pupils like I think it should.

There are a few locations in The Tower that are exempt and DO look great.

The view - A huge expanse showcasing The Traveler in all it's dormant glory and the stunning mountainous vista from the Vanguard room.

The Speaker's... office?? - If I were a millionaire I probably would have a giant gyroscope type... thing (reminds me of the film Contact) surrounded by a bunch of galaxy snow globes. It's probably my favourite place in the The Tower.

The Queen's Representative - The ship with it's long material-like streamers is a gorgeous touch and looks great.

The Problem
I can't fault the architecture, it's grandiose and imposing as it should be, it's the headquarters for all Guardians everywhere but let's face it it's rather an uninspired grey wasteland.

Amongst the wasteland The Cryptarch stands to the right in front of a small red stall with nothing on it (explains why he's so unwilling to give anything good away, he has no stock!). The Gunsmith has some beige weapons on the grey wall behind him, standing behind his grey empty table. Xander 99-40 whom we spend a lot of time collecting bounties from is just standing next to a billboard and some boxes.

It would be a fair question to ask me, "What sort of thing would you like to see?" and I have to admit I'd struggle with an answer. I think I was hoping/expecting each 'important' NPC to have an equally important (and great looking) area where they conduct their business. At the very least a bit more colour. It seems as though the small banners that are hung around the main area of The Tower are there to do just that, add a bit of colour, however, nailing a red sock to the Great Wall of China doesn't make it any less grey.

We spawn into The Tower from orbit and what do we see? a hustling, bustling, colourful, awe-inspiring, social courtyard that makes you want to stand there and slowly pan your camera up and get involved??

It's just a shame that (whether you agreed with the treasure cave exploit or not) one of the most beautiful sights I've seen in Destiny so far is a small cave full of glowing ammo/engram drops. Rather than the home of The Guardians...

What do you think?

Septy · September 26, 2014, 06:12:09 PM

We should have been able to go into the city.

jobanVpistol · September 26, 2014, 06:17:53 PM

It would have been great to do that. I must admit I've stood looking at it feeling somewhat... imprisoned.

but we can't dwell on that too much because it is what it is. It's literally game changing however they can decorate what we can walk around a lot better. Some more interesting lighting maybe I don't know but...

Flee · September 26, 2014, 06:21:32 PM

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jobanVpistol · September 26, 2014, 06:28:35 PM

I have an interest in design. Not game mechanics.

Flee · September 26, 2014, 06:30:36 PM

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jobanVpistol · September 26, 2014, 06:34:38 PM

Ah right my mistake.

I don't want to get caught up in all that other stuff (although I'm aware of the risk posting something like this).

$:-\$

Cheat · September 26, 2014, 06:37:38 PM

Hey! I'm a graphic designer as well.

And I agree; the tower designs just don't POP. To be honest, I couldn't even begin to describe to you what the city beyond the tower looks like; there's just no draw or life in any of the various rooms of the tower.

The people suck, too. "Hello, guardian" in a monotone is only acceptable the first seven times.

Statefarm · September 26, 2014, 06:42:28 PM

Quote from: Septy on September 26, 2014, 06:12:09 PM

We should have been able to go into the city.

Thiiiiiiiissssss

"The Last Safe City on Earth!"
"Defend it with everything guaaardddiiiaanns"
"Can I walk around in the cit-"
NO! Now go fight the darkness

Isara · September 26, 2014, 06:48:20 PM

As someone who self-defines themselves as a "Jack of All Trades" when it comes to game development, I find that the tower is the simplest form of a player-driven social hub that serves the purpose of well, a social hub. Walking around the tower, I can easily spot many little details, but the dullness of the tower cannot be ignored.

There's no life. There's no attempt to fake life. No NPCs coming and leaving in a proper manner. No conversations¹, no incidents, nothing of such happens. One can stay in the tower, moving left and right for five minutes, 15 minutes, a few hours, and the NPCs won't move an inch. The sky will comply by changing its texture and the lighting will adapt. (At least they were able to simulate an environment! Ya-hoo!)

However, I believe it is a mistake to consider the tower as a social hub in the sense of a big MMO city. Supposedly, if Destiny were to aim into such a large open world area then our headquarters would have been in The City itself. Therefore, it is an inherit objective that the tower fulfills in an excellent manner; as a station to manage your character, meet friends and move on in short timespans.

¹ Some conversations do take place, but they do not happen often, and do not really feel like a bustle of life, since the two characters conversing sometimes are too far, or not even looking to one another.

Yu · September 26, 2014, 06:50:33 PM

Quote from: Isara on September 26, 2014, 06:48:20 PM

As someone who self-defines themselves as a "Jack of All Trades" when it comes to game development

Oh? Could you explain, do you have experience, knowledge, and the like, I'm curious.

Isara · September 26, 2014, 06:56:23 PM

I do not have any remarkable experience that is worth sharing, to my regret, at least, not yet. I consistently develop my programming skills primarily, followed by creative writing, design, some 2D and 3D art, of course some different engines and producing small mods focusing on specific objectives. By that statement I mean that I focus myself on multiple areas of game development, but I do not necessarily have the talent or skill that someone dedicated in specific areas has.

My aspiration is to actually become a game developer, and to develop games. Meanwhile, I do have a clear focus on programming, my belief is that learning, and understanding the whole picture is a better approach to that goal than focusing on my single area of comfort.

Quote from: Yutaka on September 26, 2014, 06:50:33 PM

Oh? Could you explain, do you have experience, knowledge, and the like, I'm curious.

jobanVpistol · September 26, 2014, 07:01:29 PM

Exactly, 'no life'. It feels like walking through town on Christmas Day. An eerie 'is there a sale on somewhere I don't know about' sensation.

The odd thing is, it wasn't apparent to me until recently.

Actually... you know what could make it look more interesting with the least amount of effort. If they (not completely) covered the hard metal floor with some kind of royal red carpet, falling down and up the stairs etc. Make it less... sterile. The story implies Guardians are almost royalty why not have a carpet to go with it ha!

Yu · September 26, 2014, 07:05:21 PM

Quote from: Isara on September 26, 2014, 06:56:23 PM

I do not have any remarkable experience that is worth sharing, to my regret, at least, not yet. I consistently develop my programming skills primarily, followed by creative writing, design, some 2D and 3D art, of course some different engines and producing small mods focusing on specific objectives. By that statement I mean that I focus myself on multiple areas of game development, but I do not necessarily have the talent or skill that someone dedicated in specific areas has.

My aspiration is to actually become a game developer, and to develop games. Meanwhile, I do have a clear focus on programming, my belief is that learning, and understanding the whole picture is a better approach to that goal than focusing on my single area of comfort.

Quote from: Yutaka on September 26, 2014, 06:50:33 PM
Oh? Could you explain, do you have experience, knowledge, and the like, I'm curious.

Interesting, what is it that you are doing right now that you enjoy the most?

Isara · September 26, 2014, 07:12:48 PM

Dissecting games, and critically think about them and what happens inside them. That's the most entertaining part of the learning process I mentioned above. The whole procedure is akin to reverse engineering, and then what is learned is applied with the small mods I mentioned, too.

It's my favorite part. Because you can learn so much by looking into the right place on the internet, and more than often many developers with expertise reply to the emails you send them with legitimate questions. It's always exciting to actually go to a major release, and find out how did they make things work, the "tricks" that were used and their proper names and standards in the industry.

A fond memory of this is when I found out how the slicing physics worked for Metal Gear Rising, but it turned out it was something similar as other ideas throughout the industry, and someone had compiled all that information online, and made it available for free. (http://simonschreibt.de/gat/metal-gear-rising-slicing/)

Quote from: Yutaka on September 26, 2014, 07:05:21 PM

Interesting, what is it that you are doing right now that you enjoy the most?

jobanVpistol · September 26, 2014, 07:23:43 PM

Quote from: Isara on September 26, 2014, 06:48:20 PM

However, I believe it is a mistake to consider the tower as a social hub in the sense of a big MMO city. Supposedly, if Destiny were to aim into such a large open world area then our headquarters would have been in The City itself. Therefore, it is an inherit objective that the tower fulfills in an excellent manner; as a station to manage your character, meet friends and move on in short timespans.
¹ Some conversations do take place, but they do not happen often, and do not really feel like a bustle of life, since the two characters conversing sometimes are too far, or not even looking to one another.

Oh definitely, it shouldn't be considered an MMO social hub I completely agree but however long your character is or isn't meant to stay their... does that mean it can't be beautiful?

It just feels to me that The Tower is somewhat... confused. If the only purpose it serves is for character management then why build it at all? Why not just hang in orbit and converse with your friends through some kind of menu screen.

It does it's job well like you say but it's unmistakingly trying to instil that unquantifiable sense of belonging to a larger community that you get within an MMO and it does so (partly) by it's design. The area's where character management is mostly confined to, is huge for it's base purpose and in the same breathe they over estimated how many vault interfaces are truly required for such a sparse environment.

EDIT: For just wanting people not to hang around for very long, if you get my meaning. :s

Isara · September 26, 2014, 07:35:15 PM

The Tower has to be compact, and quick to navigate, but also add the possibility to meet with other players. A more beautiful tower would have to incorporate many more elements which would be more taxing on the content, but also you run the risk that all those elements might not even be used. (Therefore, risking to waste not only disc space, but also rising further issues and work hours into ensuring the beauty of the tower)

Also, it's not ugly. The tower looks fine for its purpose. Now, as to why The Tower is needed... You should think about other action role-playing games. Take Diablo for example with Tristram, or Diablo 2 with the rogue camp. The idea is that you have to go back and forth through a main "hub" to prepare yourself for the next journey beyond.

The concept of taking journeys in a wild frontier is strong within Destiny. Where the game is all about the player going through dangerous, uncivilized areas which have been overrun by enemies. Perhaps, The Tower exists not only to serve as a hub, but as a perspective of what civilization is-- a contrast with the constant view of a long-lost Golden Age.

Also, the vaults, the larger areas, are just beauty touches. They might feel exaggerated because the tower actually lacks life, because otherwise they would have felt like a natural element.

Quote from: jobanVpistol on September 26, 2014, 07:23:43 PM

Oh definitely, it shouldn't be considered an MMO social hub I completely agree but however long your character is or isn't meant to stay their... does that mean it can't be beautiful?

It just feels to me that The Tower is somewhat... confused. If the only purpose it serves is for character management then why build it at all? Why not just hang in orbit and converse with your friends through some kind of menu screen.

It does it's job well like you say but it's unmistakingly trying to instil that unquantifiable sense of belonging to a larger community that you get within an MMO and it does so (partly) by it's design. The area's where character management is mostly confined to, is huge for it's base purpose and in the same breathe they over estimated how many vault interfaces are truly required for such a sparse environment.

EDIT: For just wanting people not to hang around for very long, if you get my meaning. :s

jobanVpistol · September 26, 2014, 08:00:40 PM

I hear what your saying but surely, surely, a few planes with a simple diffuse texture applied to it wouldn't be taxing or take up hardly any memory in a game that was a 7GB download.

The lifelessness does bother me but not as much as the drab environment does. I do understand your point though some of the details I would have liked to be implemented would involve scripting, model animation etc etc.

On a slightly different topic, I have a similar interest in the making of games. I'm addicted to watching all the tutorials I can on Unreal Engine 4 on YouTube you should check them out if you haven't done already. Also Substance Designer really interesting to watch.

Isara · September 26, 2014, 08:10:33 PM

The feeling of drab environment probably comes from the lack of NPCs with life-like simulated activity, not necessarily from the environment itself. However, you want to keep things the least expensive possible when it comes to creating a multi platform game like Destiny. Especially since it strives to achieve a really similar experience from one platform to another.

Quote from: jobanVpistol on September 26, 2014, 08:00:40 PM

I hear what your saying but surely, surely, a few planes with a simple diffuse texture applied to it wouldn't be taxing or take up hardly any memory in a game that was a 7GB download.

The lifelessness does bother me but not as much as the drab environment does. I do understand your point though some of the details I would have liked to be implemented would involve scripting, model animation etc etc.

On a slightly different topic, I have a similar interest in the making of games. I'm addicted to watching all the tutorials I can on Unreal Engine 4 on YouTube you should check them out if you haven't done already. Also Substance Designer really interesting to watch.

jobanVpistol · September 26, 2014, 08:22:13 PM

It's definitely the environment for me. Lol

Like I said the lifelessness 'bothers me' but can be substituted by players at least.
As much as this phrase makes me cringe, we'll just have to agree to disagree lol.

I appreciate your views though. That was the point of the post, just wanted to hear other people's thoughts.

Juuzou · September 26, 2014, 09:05:40 PM

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Sandtrap · September 26, 2014, 09:14:11 PM

Bungie's concept art had 10x more life and atmosphere than their finished product.

If only they could do a little extra work and put that spark into their world. It's pretty, like a very finely painted picture. But the artist did not know the other side of the coin, and that was expression.

Pretty on the eyes, hollow on the soul.

Septy · September 26, 2014, 09:27:10 PM

Quote from: Sandtrap on September 26, 2014, 09:14:11 PM

Bungie's concept art had 10x more life and atmosphere than their finished product.

If only they could do a little extra work and put that spark into their world. It's pretty, like a very finely painted picture. But the artist did not know the other side of the coin, and that was expression.

Pretty on the eyes, hollow on the soul.

It's like they set out to make a whole different game and somehow ended up with this garbage.

Comet · September 26, 2014, 10:38:25 PM

Quote from: Septy on September 26, 2014, 09:27:10 PM

It's like they set out to make a whole different game and somehow ended up with this garbage.

i want to go there. i want to be in those spaces. Bingue y?

🂿 · September 27, 2014, 01:06:20 AM

Quote from: Flee on September 26, 2014, 06:21:32 PM

Is this it? The beginning of the end? Have the Desticles finally found our precious hideout?

Perfect time to advertise.

http://thehideout.boards.net/

Don't worry, I keep desticles out and I'm about to disable guest posting soon, which would mean you'd have to sign up to see what's what, and signing up will be limited.

🂿 · September 27, 2014, 01:09:48 AM

Anyway...

$500 million dollars.... What the fuck Bungie?!? Do you just take your hard earn money and flush it down the drain for shits and giggles?

That money could have been put into better use. Fuck Activision and their publishing agreements.

You guys should be able to self-publish now! What gives?

Also, fresh off the internet on my channel...

YouTube

Fondue · September 28, 2014, 02:02:20 PM

Quote from: Septy on September 26, 2014, 06:12:09 PM

We should have been able to go into the city.

This.

challengerX · September 29, 2014, 10:21:26 AM

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gats · September 29, 2014, 10:24:30 AM

When I first heard about Destiny I was thinking there would at least be a city to roam in. A couple merchants and big shops here and there that would sell different kinds of weapons, armour, ships. All we got was a fucking tower smaller than sandtrap on Halo 3.

Turkey · September 29, 2014, 11:01:54 AM

I think the Tower fails as its fundamental goal of being a social hub. The lack of clan or chat support means it's just a menu interface you can walk through, and the loading times required to get from the gameplay to the Tower and back is inexcusable in that role.

I'd really enjoy a "simulation" area where you can check out the multiplayer maps, test out weapons (especially rare weapons you can buy from vendors), and try out various combinations of skills. It'd also be cool to have shooting galleries and clan instances. Another thing I'd like to see is a lore hub, where you can view grimoire cards in a coherent narrative, rather than little paragraphs on B.Net; narration over concept art explaining various locations and characters would be perfect. Overall it just needs to be far more interactive than it is.

Also, ships need to be more than loading screens. TOR finally figured it out, but even something as simple as a Starfox/Rebel Assault-style mission setup would be great.