Dark Souls remastered

 
 
Flee
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You could've saved yourself some time if you had just clarified that by "refuting" (properly disproving a statement) you actually meant "disliking". Refuting would be to fully prove to someone that you do or don't randomly gain humanity when you die, when all you did was again talk about why you don't like the mechanic and why you think it's dumb game design - something that is pretty irrelevant to what I said. I didn't even try to argue that it's a good mechanic at as we've already been through that months ago. All I did was just explain why your reasoning of "if you have no soft humanity, invaders shouldn't get anything" doesn't make sense within the lore and the workings of the humanity/invasion/covenant mechanics (which, let's be honest, you're not really an expert on as this is your first blind playthrough and you actively avoid the entire multiplayer portion of the game). Everything I said is true and addresses your assumptions of how it "should work"  because your understanding of it is just incorrect. Your "refutation" is just an explanation of why you think is dumb and should work differently because of incorrect reasons. That's all.

And yeah, you are kinda wrong about the "spending". You burn the humanity at a bonfire to absorb it and reverse your hollowing. Just as you have to burn tobacco to inhale the released smoke, you have to use the special fires of the bonfire to consume humanities. Once you do, the humanity infuses you and you once again become a full human until the next time you die. When this happens, your humanity (which you can think of as a human soul) evaporates and disappears unless this happens in the presence of a Darkwraith invader who then absorbs it instead. It becomes more obvious when you actually join the covenant, get the explanation, read the descriptions of the gear and receive the special humanity draining "dark hand" item, so I can't really fault you too much for not knowing this.

Also, I was serious about the random humanity upon death thing. I've never heard about it before and there's nothing about it on the wiki. It's a big discovery if true but I suspect you might be confusing it with gaining seemingly random humanity from killing enemies before a boss.


 
 
Flee
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tl;dr it's fine to dislike invasions and think it's a dumb mechanic, but the claiming of humanity as a reward makes perfect sense within the lore and is consistent with the way humanities and invasions of work. You haven't refuted that and I think the reason you disagree lies in a misunderstanding of the lore and the mechanics.


 
Verbatim
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You could've saved yourself some time if you had just clarified that by "refuting" (properly disproving a statement) you actually meant "disliking".
but i didn't

the actual contents of the statements can't be refuted, but there's an implicit assertion that what you've had to say wasn't irrelevant to the conversation i was having, and that is the notion that i've refuted
Quote
Refuting would be to fully prove to someone that you do or don't randomly gain humanity when you die, when all you did was again talk about why you don't like the mechanic and why you think it's dumb game design - something that is pretty irrelevant to what I said.
okay, here's what you're doing right now

you don't waltz into a conversation about politics and randomly bring up something stupid like sports, getting me to say something like, "yeah, but we're not talking about sports, guy, we're talking about politics," and then respond with, "um, but excuse me, i'm talking about sports, politics are irrelevant to what i'm talking about"

that's exactly what you're doing
Quote
I didn't even try to argue that it's a good mechanic at as we've already been through that months ago.
regardless, that's all i'm trying to talk about right now

i'm not sure why you'd waste your time trying to correct misconceptions about the lore when i ultimately don't care, and since it's not going to change how i feel or think about any of this, i don't know what you're trying to accomplish

Quote
let's be honest, you're not really an expert on as this is your first blind playthrough and you actively avoid the entire multiplayer portion of the game).
i'm an expert on how things should work, regardless of how they actually do

let me put it to you this way, i'd rather play a game with bad lore if it means i don't have to subject myself to bad gameplay—i would never trade good gameplay for good lore, ever

Quote
And yeah, you are kinda wrong about the "spending". You burn the humanity at a bonfire to absorb it and reverse your hollowing. Just as you have to burn tobacco to inhale the released smoke, you have to use the special fires of the bonfire to consume humanities. Once you do, the humanity infuses you and you once again become a full human until the next time you die. When this happens, your humanity (which you can think of as a human soul) evaporates and disappears unless this happens in the presence of a Darkwraith invader who then absorbs it instead. It becomes more obvious when you actually join the covenant, get the explanation, read the descriptions of the gear and receive the special humanity draining "dark hand" item, so I can't really fault you too much for not knowing this.
zzzzzzzzzz

okay, so i was right about the handwavy magical nonsense, good

you can't say with a straight face that any of this makes sense or should be taken seriously, right? because i'm not gonna do that

tl;dr

"i'm not sure why you'd waste your time trying to correct misconceptions about the lore when i ultimately don't care, and since it's not going to change how i feel or think about any of this, i don't know what you're trying to accomplish" is the crux of the post
Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 12:19:15 PM by Verbatim


 
Verbatim
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tl;dr it's fine to dislike invasions and think it's a dumb mechanic, but the claiming of humanity as a reward makes perfect sense within the lore and is consistent with the way humanities and invasions of work. You haven't refuted that and I think the reason you disagree lies in a misunderstanding of the lore and the mechanics.
right, and if i say "okay i was wrong" what happens then

i still feel the exact same way about all of this, and for every reason you're able to successfully justify, i'm probably going to find five more reasons to dislike the system anyway—and i won't have to look too hard

one more time: i STRICTLY dislike claiming humanity as a gameplay mechanic, i do not care about the lore

if you can't defend it as a gameplay mechanic, then there's no conversation
Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 12:25:22 PM by Verbatim


 
 
Flee
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right, and if i say "okay i was wrong" what happens then
Nothing. It just means that you were wrong about that specific part of the game, now realize it and (hopefully) will no longer try to argue that same point. That's it. :) You're still free to dislike the invasion mechanic, opt out of it entirely, endlessly criticize it and think less of the game because of it. I don't care. We discussed invasions months ago when you just started your playthrough and I have no intention of doing that again. All I did was set the record straight because you had some misunderstandings and Dietrich didn't really clear them up because he was uncertain about them himself.
Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 12:37:35 PM by Flee


 
Verbatim
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Nothing. It just means that you were wrong about that specific part of the game, now realize it and (hopefully) will no longer try to argue that same point.
what point, though

the point i made was "it shouldn't work like this"

is this not true regardless of any lore justifications

am i not still able to argue that it shouldn't work like that regardless of lore

you can feel differently about it, but how does that make me wrong


Chaos Metal Dragon | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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The real problem with invasions is that the PvP itself is just bad and nobody should be subjected to it.

It's especialy bad in this remaster becuase:

-The Anti-Cheat does not actually work against malicious cheats such as instant-cursing weapons
-The Anti-Cheat is exploitable because cheating invaders can seed your world or character with varibles that will get YOU banned or brck your save
-Backstab/hornet ring meta was not fixed
-The game is even more buggy with phantoms in the world than the original was
-Miyazaki gave Invaders estus again
-Upgrade based matchmaking has made the problem with Dark Magic Twinking even worse
latency issues alone are enough to put a deal-breaking bullet into the entire system honestly

Yeah and this is always an issue across the board in Souls games, although it's not to bad to ccompensarre for in DkS2 most of the time. But that game has its own host of issues including getting invaded while hollow and soul memory that  further punishes you for not doing well.


 
 
Flee
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Nothing. It just means that you were wrong about that specific part of the game, now realize it and (hopefully) will no longer try to argue that same point.
what point, though

the point i made was "it shouldn't work like this"

is this not true regardless of any lore justifications

am i not still able to argue that it shouldn't work like that regardless of lore

you can feel differently about it, but how does that make me wrong
You're right. I was more referring to some of the arguments you made. It's perfectly reasonable to think things should be different about a video game but parts of what you said to substantiate that were pretty iffy. To keep up with the pokemon analogy, it'd be fine for someone to think you should be able to catch other trainers' pokemon. It's an opinion and a value statement that isn't inherently wrong. But if the arguments they'd use to get that point across simply aren't correct in light of what we know to be "the truth" in or about the game ("actually all pokemon hate their trainers and are constantly yearning to escape and be caught by another trainer no matter who it is or how good they have it" - which is something that flatout contradicts and is incompatible with the pokemon lore / universe), then I think it's fine to correct that. You're free to think it should be changed, I just wanted to shed some light on some of the stuff you argued that I thought were based on some misunderstandings of the game. That's all. :)


Big Boss™ Remastered | Mythic Card Master
 
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Jacob Potila was actually a Jacob Flotilla of lies.- WarTurkey
Crying about invaders is such a reddit thing to do.
Nah, it's a verbatim thing. He doesn't like them because he wants to be special. Literally everyone likes them except for our personal contrarian here. The most reddit thing to do in dark souls is to talk about sunbros or "git gud"

Hey now what's wrong with a bit of jolly co-operation


 
Eli
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MIND, POWER …気…
I don't like invasions, either. I play offline mostly, though.


Dietrich Six | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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Excuse me, I'm full of dog poison
Invasions spice up the game after you've beaten it 20 times. Plus hand sucking someone's face is super satisfying.


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Wat r u, casul?
*sigh*

I fucking bought it like an idiot. At least the Gravelord covenant actually works now.


 
challengerX
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I DONT GIVE A SINGLE -blam!- MOTHER -blam!-ER ITS A MOTHER -blam!-ING FORUM, OH WOW, YOU HAVE THE WORD NINJA BELOW YOUR NAME, HOW MOTHER -blam!-ING COOL, NOT, YOUR ARE NOTHING TO ME BUT A BRAINWASHED PIECE OF SHIT BLOGGER, PEOPLE ONLY LIKE YOU BECAUSE YOU HAVE NINJA BELOW YOUR NAME, SO PLEASE PUNCH YOURAELF IN THE FACE AND STAB YOUR EYE BECAUSE YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A PIECE OF SHIT OF SOCIETY
Crying about invaders is such a reddit thing to do.
Nah, it's a verbatim thing. He doesn't like them because he wants to be special. Literally everyone likes them except for our personal contrarian here. The most reddit thing to do in dark souls is to talk about sunbros or "git gud"

Hey now what's wrong with a bit of jolly co-operation
what are your favorite subreddits 😃


 
Verbatim
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Crying about invaders is such a reddit thing to do.
Nah, it's a verbatim thing. He doesn't like them because he wants to be special. Literally everyone likes them except for our personal contrarian here. The most reddit thing to do in dark souls is to talk about sunbros or "git gud"
Hey now what's wrong with a bit of jolly co-operation
what are your favorite subreddits 😃
r/OutOfTheLoop
r/LivestreamFail
r/Showerthoughts
r/WritingPrompts
r/watchpeopledie

+ the subreddits dedicated to things that i enjoy, like r/speedrun and r/pokemon
Last Edit: June 05, 2018, 10:12:36 AM by Verbatim


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Crying about invaders is such a reddit thing to do.
Nah, it's a verbatim thing. He doesn't like them because he wants to be special. Literally everyone likes them except for our personal contrarian here. The most reddit thing to do in dark souls is to talk about sunbros or "git gud"
Hey now what's wrong with a bit of jolly co-operation
what are your favorite subreddits 😃
r/OutOfTheLoop
r/LivestreamFail
r/Showerthoughts
r/WritingPrompts
r/watchpeopledie

+ the subreddits dedicated to things that i enjoy, like r/speedrun and r/pokemon
mine too fellow redditor, have an upvote, on the house ;)


 
Verbatim
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really good website


Big Boss™ Remastered | Mythic Card Master
 
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Jacob Potila was actually a Jacob Flotilla of lies.- WarTurkey
Crying about invaders is such a reddit thing to do.
Nah, it's a verbatim thing. He doesn't like them because he wants to be special. Literally everyone likes them except for our personal contrarian here. The most reddit thing to do in dark souls is to talk about sunbros or "git gud"
Hey now what's wrong with a bit of jolly co-operation
what are your favorite subreddits 😃
r/OutOfTheLoop
r/LivestreamFail
r/Showerthoughts
r/WritingPrompts
r/watchpeopledie

+ the subreddits dedicated to things that i enjoy, like r/speedrun and r/pokemon

r/OutOfTheLoop
r/Showerthoughts
r/WritingPrompts
r/watchpeopledie
r/Paranormal
r/Futurology
r/Mildlyinteresting
r/Morbidreality
r/Oldschoolcreepy


Couple of others, but they're just general gaming ones. The Battlefront one is quite fun when it has a meltdown.


 
challengerX
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I DONT GIVE A SINGLE -blam!- MOTHER -blam!-ER ITS A MOTHER -blam!-ING FORUM, OH WOW, YOU HAVE THE WORD NINJA BELOW YOUR NAME, HOW MOTHER -blam!-ING COOL, NOT, YOUR ARE NOTHING TO ME BUT A BRAINWASHED PIECE OF SHIT BLOGGER, PEOPLE ONLY LIKE YOU BECAUSE YOU HAVE NINJA BELOW YOUR NAME, SO PLEASE PUNCH YOURAELF IN THE FACE AND STAB YOUR EYE BECAUSE YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A PIECE OF SHIT OF SOCIETY
Crying about invaders is such a reddit thing to do.
Nah, it's a verbatim thing. He doesn't like them because he wants to be special. Literally everyone likes them except for our personal contrarian here. The most reddit thing to do in dark souls is to talk about sunbros or "git gud"
Hey now what's wrong with a bit of jolly co-operation
what are your favorite subreddits 😃
r/OutOfTheLoop
r/LivestreamFail
r/Showerthoughts
r/WritingPrompts
r/watchpeopledie

+ the subreddits dedicated to things that i enjoy, like r/speedrun and r/pokemon

r/OutOfTheLoop
r/Showerthoughts
r/WritingPrompts
r/watchpeopledie
r/Paranormal
r/Futurology
r/Mildlyinteresting
r/Morbidreality
r/Oldschoolcreepy


Couple of others, but they're just general gaming ones. The Battlefront one is quite fun when it has a meltdown.
here's an upvote for both of you strangers 😉


 
Verbatim
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reddit is awesome


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Jacob Potila was actually a Jacob Flotilla of lies.- WarTurkey
reddit is awesome
Yeah there's a nice variety sometimes, it's a good place to lose a couple of hours when I don't wanna sink too deeply into TVtropes.  Not sure why some people dislike it, but hey like it matters.


 
Verbatim
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reddit is awesome
Yeah there's a nice variety sometimes, it's a good place to lose a couple of hours when I don't wanna sink too deeply into TVtropes.  Not sure why some people dislike it, but hey like it matters.
people just don't like the community/culture (and neither do i, really)

that's all they base their opinion on though which is dumb


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reddit is awesome
Yeah there's a nice variety sometimes, it's a good place to lose a couple of hours when I don't wanna sink too deeply into TVtropes.  Not sure why some people dislike it, but hey like it matters.
people just don't like the community/culture (and neither do i, really)

that's all they base their opinion on though which is dumb
I'm pretty sure communities and sometimes algorithms are the things that are ruining most of popular websites


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YouTube


In other news: Smash Bros Pro ZeRo becomes the first ever and only person in all of space and time to ever die to the Moonlight Butterfly


Big Boss™ Remastered | Mythic Card Master
 
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Jacob Potila was actually a Jacob Flotilla of lies.- WarTurkey
reddit is awesome
Yeah there's a nice variety sometimes, it's a good place to lose a couple of hours when I don't wanna sink too deeply into TVtropes.  Not sure why some people dislike it, but hey like it matters.
people just don't like the community/culture (and neither do i, really)

that's all they base their opinion on though which is dumb

I've never really noticed anything bad in the subreddits I visit. Maybe it's just the bigger ones that give the site a negative rep.


Ásgeirr | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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The angel agreed to trade a set of white wings for the head of another demon. Overjoyed, the demon killed one of his own and plucked the head right off its still-warm body.

The angel then led the demon to heaven, where he underwent centuries of the cruelest tortures imaginable. Finally, the pain was so great that he lost consciousness - at which point his dark wings turned the promised shade of white.
Oh man, Zweihander wrecks early game so hard

And people give dex shit <.<


Big Boss™ Remastered | Mythic Card Master
 
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Jacob Potila was actually a Jacob Flotilla of lies.- WarTurkey
So uhhhh Andre knocked his anvil over



Chaos Metal Dragon | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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So uhhhh Andre knocked his anvil over



WTF? How?


Nick McIntyre | Legendary Invincible!
 
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The real problem with invasions is that the PvP itself is just bad and nobody should be subjected to it.

It's especialy bad in this remaster becuase:

-The Anti-Cheat does not actually work against malicious cheats such as instant-cursing weapons
-The Anti-Cheat is exploitable because cheating invaders can seed your world or character with varibles that will get YOU banned or brck your save
-Backstab/hornet ring meta was not fixed
-The game is even more buggy with phantoms in the world than the original was
-Miyazaki gave Invaders estus again
-Upgrade based matchmaking has made the problem with Dark Magic Twinking even worse

I actually had this happen, and it pissed me off.  After I got to the Darkroot Basin, someone invaded me.  They rushed Andre, killed him, and then I was cursed and got egghead, weapon broke, and I was killed instantly.  I didn't even see the guy.

Gonna have to start over.


 
Verbatim
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hold the fuck up

invaders can kill NPCs?


Nick McIntyre | Legendary Invincible!
 
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hold the fuck up

invaders can kill NPCs?

Yep, it was a hack.  And guess what From's doing about it?  Jack shit.