Dark Souls Impressions - The FINAL Update

Low key, rats are the best because they drop humanity.

Often?

Because I think everything does.

If they have a higher chance, I'm going to do some farming. I don't give a fuck.

Far more often than most other enemies. (tbh I think it's the only thing they can drop)

Farming rats in the sewers is your best bet to rack up a lot of humanity. Just make sure to get the covetous gold serpent ring in Sen's Fortress before you try it.

Thinking about purchasing an Elgato.

I'm sick of not being able to show you guys stuff. I'm pulling some of the sickest shit <_<

Oh god, I just bought one.

Consider this playthrough on hold until it arrives. <_<

oh

oh

should be here on the fifth

To sum up my thoughts so far:

Yeah, uh, I'm really enjoying myself, for the most part. There's a lot of things that I really like--the visuals, the combat, the atmosphere, and the game feel are all there in spades, but there's still a lot of design choices that, even if I understand them from a thematic perspective, don't really jibe with me all that much in practice--namely, the soul collecting, how the game punishes you for dying, the weapon degradation system, and the lack of a pause feature.

I feel that the game tries way too hard to be... well, hard. It's nice that the game challenges you, and doesn't hold your hand--and overcoming all the adversity is satisfying and all, but ultimately, losing your souls when you die isn't fun--it's just tedious. You can talk all you want about how "fair" the game is--but "fair" doesn't automatically mean "fun."

What makes the game fun for me is the combat, and the whole not-knowing-what's-gonna-come-next. Right now, those are my biggest takeaways so far. I feel like I'm really on a perilous journey, and it's cool. But I really, really just don't appreciate the game's lack of respect for the player's precious time.

In fact, one of my earlier concerns with the game, before I started playing, regarded how everyone seemed to think the game was absurdly difficult--and I was very skeptical of that. Very few games are "hard"--they put in dumb mechanics that make the game seem hard, when in actuality, they're just tedious. It's fake difficulty. I expected Dark Souls to be no different.

Of course, I had a lot of fanboys running to the game's defense, saying their usual shit. "There is no fake difficulty! All of the game's challenge is completely fair, and if you die, it's because you genuinely suck!"

Well, I'm sorry to break it to you, but the soul system in this game is an example of fake difficulty--as is the weapon degradation system. They work in tandem. They only serve to make the game feel longer and more difficult than it is--when in reality, all it's doing is wasting your time. Kind of like your average MMO game, except maybe not as extreme.

What makes the game fun for me is the combat

It's kinda neat how such a simple system can be so solid and fun.

the soul system in this game is an example of fake difficulty

It's really no different from older games that restart a level when you die, except with the benefit of giving you your souls back if you can make it back. It doesn't really fit into any of the five categories in your link; it even addresses your complaint:

It is important to note that just because a gameplay feature is annoying and frustrating does not make it fake difficulty. For example, placing a large number of invincible minor minions between the player and the Plot Coupon is extremely annoying, but they can be avoided by skilled movement - thus, the difficulty is real.

The game maybe suffers from "checkpoint starvation" (from your link).

Weapon degradation is not a problem I ran into at all in DS1. Idk what you were doing honestly.

If you want "artificial difficulty", play Dark Souls 2. Adds on bosses, random enemies bursting out of walls with no warnings, bad hit boxes, etc.

Well, I'm sorry to break it to you, but the soul system in this game is an example of fake difficulty

not that i'm saying you're wrong

but how? I like the idea of losing your souls when you die (which you can pick up, and there is a ring to prevent this. Basically a subtle way of adding an "easy" factor, much like being a mage, without having a difficulty slider) because it makes bonfires exactly what Miyazaki intended them for. You remember what I said about the thought process of continuing on/pulling back to it, and the relief on finding one.

Capra Demon hype?

We going to have commentary and the whole course meal? This will be most enjoyable.  Are you going to start from the beginning though I wonder?

Weapon degradation is not a problem I ran into at all in DS1. Idk what you were doing honestly.

My problem, really, is that it exists at all to begin with. The only purpose it serves is to tax you of a couple hundred souls every once in awhile--for no reason. What's the difference between a.) progressing through the game normally, fighting enemies and killing them as you go along, and b.) fighting a bunch of enemies, breaking your weapon, and being obliged to stop in your tracks to collect a few souls just to have your weapon fixed, and then progressing through the game?

Answer: Ten more minutes that could've been spent doing some actual progressing.

Just because it may not happen often, or may not be a significant problem in the grand scheme, doesn't mean it's still not a flaw worth pointing out. The game is a lot like Castlevania, I've noticed--imagine if in the first Castlevania game, your whip degraded, and you had to stop in your tracks and collect enough hearts to fix it again.

That would be fucking stupid, right?

but how? I like the idea of losing your souls when you die (which you can pick up, and there is a ring to prevent this. Basically a subtle way of adding an "easy" factor, much like being a mage, without having a difficulty slider) because it makes bonfires exactly what Miyazaki intended them for. You remember what I said about the thought process of continuing on/pulling back to it, and the relief on finding one.

The relief doesn't outweigh the bullshit for me. Finding the bonfire doesn't give me back the two hours I wasted grinding souls--nothing can.

It's simply a matter of preference, it seems.

Losing souls when you die makes sense, and being able to pick it back up is fair. But it's not fun, because the game preys on your free time in order to make itself difficult--and that's why I consider it fake difficulty. If Miyazaki found a more intelligent way to punish you--not in a way that makes the game easier, but one that doesn't overtly waste your precious time--that would be better in my eyes.

Obviously, you like the system, but the cons outweigh the pros for me. I don't get "relief," like, "Oh, nice, a bonfire!"

For me, it's more like, "Ugh, fucking finally. A bonfire." That's not a good sign.

Calling the ring an "easy factor" would imply that losing your souls makes the game more difficult. The game isn't difficult--it's fake difficult, because the punishment of losing your souls is based around tedium. Therefore, the ring is more of an anti-tediousness mechanic. That's what I'd call it.

We going to have commentary and the whole course meal? This will be most enjoyable.  Are you going to start from the beginning though I wonder?

Nah, fuck that.

We going to have commentary and the whole course meal? This will be most enjoyable.  Are you going to start from the beginning though I wonder?

Nah, fuck that.

Man I just wish we got your reaction to the asshole drake.

Man I just wish we got your reaction to the asshole drake.

When he burned me to a crisp, my reaction was pretty much "oh"

the second time (i didn't see the way out at first), i was like, "ah for fuck's sake"

then when i found the spot under the bridge, i was like, "ha, cunt"

It's really no different from older games that restart a level when you die,

The fact that other games have the same flawed and archaic design doesn't lend this game any reprieve for doing the same thing. I've already proved myself by killing these enemies before--why am I obliged to fight them again, just because I died later on?

except with the benefit of giving you your souls back if you can make it back. It doesn't really fit into any of the five categories in your link;

I'd file it under "bad technical aspect"--but the point I'm making is that the game implements a form of punishment that speaks nothing of your lack of skill as a player, but of your willingness to continue wasting your time, recollecting all of your hard-earned souls back. It's a lazy challenge.

"But if you didn't lose your souls, the game would be too easy!"

No it wouldn't. It would just take a shorter amount of time to beat it. So what?

it even addresses your complaint:

It is important to note that just because a gameplay feature is annoying and frustrating does not make it fake difficulty. For example, placing a large number of invincible minor minions between the player and the Plot Coupon is extremely annoying, but they can be avoided by skilled movement - thus, the difficulty is real.

That's nowhere near my complaint, though. My complaint is that the game would be no more or less difficult if it didn't use its system of punishment--it's only function is to waste your time. The fact that it's annoying is just a necessary byproduct of that--but it's not the reason I consider it fake.

the game implements a form of punishment that speaks nothing of your lack of skill as a player
[...]
"But if you didn't lose your souls, the game would be too easy!"

No it wouldn't. It would just take a shorter amount of time to beat it. So what?

How does it not? 'Get good' memes aside, once you're good in an area you'll be able to walk through without getting touched (retry Undead Burg and see how much of a challenge it poses). If you're still dying in an area, you're not ready for the boss, and you need to practice. Your ability to clear an area without draining your estus or dying is a direct measurement of your skill.

And you know what? It really isn't like how other games make you restart the level. You don't lose all your rupees when you die in Zelda--but even that's not a fantastic comparison, because rupees in Zelda aren't nearly as important as souls are in this game. They're not only your currency--they're what you use to level up.

If you leveled up through other means (like a standard XP mechanic, perhaps), I'd probably be okay with the souls mechanic--because you're just losing money, now. As it stands, the game is so centralized around gaining souls that losing them all is simply too harsh of a punishment in my eyes.

"But the game is supposed to be harsh!"

Sigh. Replace the word "harsh" with "tedious," then. Because that's what the game's form of punishment is.

How does it not? 'Get good' memes aside, once you're good in an area you'll be able to walk through without getting touched (retry Undead Burg and see how much of a challenge it poses).

Exactly. So I shouldn't be obliged to do it all over again, is my point. By the time I killed the black knight and made it to the Taurus Demon, the rest of the Burg was a cakewalk. Why, then, am I forced to go through the Burg again just because I died against the Taurus Demon the first time fighting him? I already beat this part.

If you're still dying in an area, you're not ready for the boss, and you need to practice. Your ability to clear an area without draining your estus or dying is a direct measurement of your skill.

I never, ever suggested otherwise. Indeed, this has nothing to do with what I said.

If you're still dying in an area, you're not ready for the boss. Yes.
But if you make it to the boss, you shouldn't have to redo the same area again.

I'm not sure how you twist that into what you just said.

I'd compare that mechanic to reloading from Chozo statues in Super Metroid; if you die, you reload from the last save room (bonfire) and have to travel through everything again. Only difference is that enemies don't respawn in previous rooms if you take too long, only if you use a bonfire.

I'd compare that mechanic to reloading from Chozo statues in Super Metroid; if you die, you reload from the last save room (bonfire) and have to travel through everything again. Only difference is that enemies don't respawn in previous rooms if you take too long, only if you use a bonfire.

I see what you're doing by using my favorite game of all time as an example--but the comparison would only work if you lost all your missiles, super missiles, power bombs, etc. as well as your energy tanks, which you don't. Souls are that important in Dark Souls, and that's what makes it such a drag to lose them.

You could argue that any game that doesn't make you lose everything is simply 2casual, but I think that would be asinine point to make. It just so happens that no other game is as needlessly "difficult" as Dark Souls is--yet they still manage to be fun and challenging.

I should stress that I'm not asking people to agree with me on this--I don't expect you to... but I also don't see why anyone wouldn't. If you enjoy wasting exorbitant amounts of your own time, I guess that's your prerogative. I don't, though. Unless you're just really good at the game--but even then, that must have took ages.

I see what you're doing by using my favorite game of all time as an example--

Nah, it's a Metroidvania-style game in 3D. The best way to explain mechanics are in reference to Castlevania or Metroid.

but the comparison would only work if you lost all your missiles, super missiles, power bombs, etc. as well as your energy tanks, which you don't. Souls are that important in Dark Souls, and that's what makes it such a drag to lose them.

Eh, all of those are a stretch; losing all of your super missiles/power bombs I can see, but missiles are too plentiful in comparison. They're the "hard souls" of Metroid. But fair enough point.

[quote[You could argue that any game that doesn't make you lose everything is simply 2casual, but I think that would be asinine point to make. It just so happens that no other game is as needlessly "difficult" as Dark Souls is--yet they still manage to be fun and challenging.[/quote]Dark Souls 2 stops respawning enemies after five clears iirc; even if the number isn't right, the mechanic is. I always have fun running through the Burg and similar areas over and over again, but I can see how you wouldn't.

I should stress that I'm not asking people to agree with me on this--I don't expect you to... but I also don't see why anyone wouldn't. If you enjoy wasting exorbitant amounts of your own time, I guess that's your prerogative. I don't, though. Unless you're just really good at the game--but even then, that must have took ages.

I always feel like it's an All You Need Is Kill style of satisfaction; since death effectively cleans your slate every time, you effectively get to the point of clearing areas without being scratched. Getting to that level after dying in the Burg is a nice feeling.

I'm not trying to tell you not to feel that way, just offering my view on it. In the end, this is your review. It's not my business to tell you how to rate it.

I'm not gonna quote the whole thing, but weapon degradation in games never bothered me. It helped immerse me more, knowing I had to keep my weapons sharp and in top tier condition. In fact I felt it played more into Skyrim's shallowness that no matter what armor or swords you had, they were always in top condition, all the time. It was stupid for me.

As for the free time thing, idk why you keep saying free time. When I lose souls I don't go grinding again, I carry on, because you don't necessarily NEED the souls you lost. One level up won't change anything, and upgrading your weapons and armor is far more important.

So by the time you reached the next bonfire, you'd already have enough to do whatever. Any RPG if you ask me preys on your free time. Every. Single. One. You need to invest time for an actual outcome for them if they follow them by the basic book of an RPG.

It's not like a quick pickup game of sports where everything is handed to you, or Call of Duty where the playing field is always even.


That's how I feel about it at least. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer for this topic.

Calling the ring an "easy factor" would imply that losing your souls makes the game more difficult. The game isn't difficult--it's fake difficult, because the punishment of losing your souls is based around tedium. Therefore, the ring is more of an anti-tediousness mechanic. That's what I'd call it.

I will have to quote this though

First, please just say artificial difficulty. It sounds better.

Second, I don't find the souls aspect the difficult or easy part at all. That is the actual combat of the damn game and the only difficulty is by your own mistakes. The souls are an additional aspect.

Artificial difficulty are the examples of Dark Souls 2 I used. I don't find gaining/losing souls a "hard" factor at all, because if you're sitting in the same spot grinding for souls for whatever reason, I personally don't think you're playing the game right. You should always be moving forward.

If you reply tonight, I'll actually reply tomorrow. I'm rather pissed off at irl events, so I don't want to convey that into my posts.

I always have fun running through the Burg and similar areas over and over again, but I can see how you wouldn't.

Sure, I can see how you would like that--sometimes, you may not have noticed something during your first time visiting an area, so having those extra opportunities to explore can be nice. But I mean... That sort of thing should come naturally, in my opinion. You should come back to areas because you want to--not because you were forced to.

In thinking about it, I guess I don't really consider this a major flaw--or even a "flaw" to begin with. I don't know what I'd consider it, really. All I know is that I don't really care for it. It's not my idea of fun. If you didn't need souls to level up, I wouldn't care. If there was an XP mechanic instead, I wouldn't care--but there isn't.

Then again, I can't forget about the hard souls. It's nice that they added them, and they do kinda mitigate by issues with the system a little bit, so I've been stockpiling 'em. Too bad there's probably only a finite number of them in the game, unless they're rare enemy drops or something.

I always feel like it's an All You Need Is Kill style of satisfaction; since death effectively cleans your slate every time, you effectively get to the point of clearing areas without being scratched. Getting to that level after dying in the Burg is a nice feeling.

It is a nice feeling. I need more than that, though. Nice feelings don't have a practical in-game purpose, y'know?

Yeah, I'll respond to Luci tomorrow.

I'm glad that we can have an actual conversation about this game, rather than just telling me to ACHIEV SKILL, as if that cuts to the core of my issues with the game thus far.

It's very refreshing.

ACHIEV SKILL

INCREES CAPABILITEES

STOOP SUCKING