Zelda Megathread (First Breath of the Wild DLC is out)

 
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Am I the only human on earth that didnt have these problems with the Wii-Mote for the most part? The Nunchuck got bad sometimes but the Wii-mote itself worked fine, espesialy with the Wii Motion Plus. That sword game in Sports Resort worked especially well.
The motion controls were honestly perfect for me in Skyward Sword.

my main problem was having to use them in the first place


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Am I the only human on earth that didnt have these problems with the Wii-Mote for the most part? The Nunchuck got bad sometimes but the Wii-mote itself worked fine, espesialy with the Wii Motion Plus. That sword game in Sports Resort worked especially well.
The motion controls were honestly perfect for me in Skyward Sword.

my main problem was having to use them in the first place

In a perfect world we would have adequately sized Joy-cons where you could chose between motion controlls and 'normal' controls whenever you pleased for whatever game.
There are tons of games I would love to be able to play with Motion Controls. One exaple would be For Honor: to me It  feels clunky since you're going on thumbsticks what I felt perfectly fine doing in Wii Sports with the motion controlls. And of Metroid prime were to go multiplayer the motion controlls would probably improve the experience over what it was in MP2
Last Edit: February 11, 2017, 08:03:27 PM by Sfx: Clang


Zonda | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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The music in the trailers since they actually started showing stuff sort of reminds me of Avatar: The Last Airbender's soundtrack.

Favourite game is currently Twilight Princess, but I'm yet to finish Link to the Past, Majora's Mask and Wind Waker (ie: ones that i might like better). Not sure who my favourite character is in the ones I've played.



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Jacob Potila was actually a Jacob Flotilla of lies.- WarTurkey
I just discovered something interesting by accident. If you enter a town in OoT during a very small window of time during  the transitional period between night and day, you will enter the town during daytime but there won't be any music. Made Kakariko village feel weird.


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I just discovered something interesting by accident. If you enter a town in OoT during a very small window of time during  the transitional period between night and day, you will enter the town during daytime but there won't be any music. Made Kakariko village feel weird.
OMG YES it feels so desolate without that sleepy harmonica


 
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Got some iffy news.

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Is this becoming WoW now?


Turkey | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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Got some iffy news.

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2017: The year Nintendo goes full EA

I'm not exactly opposed to expansion, but they have to be expansions, not just a little dungeon and and some collectibles. I'm already concerned about the "massive" gameplay world, since Zelda works so damn well in contained, polished spaces and much less so in open areas with little to do.


Coco | Heroic Unstoppable!
 
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I think the worst part about Nintendo's DLC is how they market it.  They talk up their content as if we should be excited by the fact that they've employed a business practice 10 years late, not by the content itself.  It's as if they're like "holy shit guys, innit cool that we can sell you stuff after the game is out?"

It's so vague ("a new map feature", "a new story", "more challenges") that there's nothing to grasp at in terms of scale/worth, so it's unclear if it's even justified to exist at all.  I can get an idea of how big "a dungeon" is, but only if I compare it to past Zeldas.  The ones from the demo seemed somewhat smaller; maybe it's not, but I have no idea if it's even fair to compare these similar-sounding elements to previous titles.  Should I be mad that the "trials" challenge isn't available out of the gate like every other one?  I don't know.

And their entire pitch was more "This is how DLC works.  It's more of the game" than it was "we have DLC and this is why you should be excited".  The most they said about it, in terms of selling it, was "it is something new and fun".  A+

Obviously they're going to focus on it later, but it's a weak way to start off and accomplishes pretty much the opposite of what they want: appealing only to the people who will automatically see it as justified, while leaving neutral parties unconvinced and skeptics even more skeptical.

Lastly, while it might not be the case, they make it sound like disk-locked content, so give them another 5 years and they'll figure out that's not well received.
Last Edit: February 14, 2017, 07:13:12 PM by Coco


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This better not be like Destiny/No man's Sky where the first 20 minutes of gameplay offer the exact same experience as the rest of the game.


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What fucked up dimension have we thrown into. Trump was one thing but now we have EA doing free DLC models while Nintendo have gone to seaons passes.

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R o c k e t | Mythic Smash Master
 
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I neither fear, nor despise.
I just discovered something interesting by accident. If you enter a town in OoT during a very small window of time during  the transitional period between night and day, you will enter the town during daytime but there won't be any music. Made Kakariko village feel weird.

I think it's the early morning phase


 
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Just two more weeks, guys.

My favorite items to use in the series are the boomerang and Roc's feather.

I only really like the Boomerang in 2D Zelda games, though, where you can use it to stop enemies in their tracks and pick up items from afar. It feels kinda janky and awkward to me in 3D Zeldas, unfortunately.

I like Roc's feather because I always felt like Link should be able to jump, and all the puzzles involving it are super clever.


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Jacob Potila was actually a Jacob Flotilla of lies.- WarTurkey
I want to say the Hookshot because it felt so satisfying grabbing onto things and pulling myself around like Spider-Man.

I also find the Magic Armor from Twilight Princess to be an interesting idea. Do you really feel so unsafe playing the game that you are willingly going to spend rupees just to be invincible? Well here you go!


Zonda | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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Double clawshot felt so satisfying to use, especially throughout City in the Sky.


 
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I actually really don't like any of the 3D hookshots, because of how awkward and slow the aiming is in 3D Zeldas.

The gyroscopic controls of the 3DS ports help, though.


Zonda | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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I actually really don't like any of the 3D hookshots, because of how awkward and slow the aiming is in 3D Zeldas.

The gyroscopic controls of the 3DS ports help, though.
Have you played on the Wii? As much as I dislike motion controls, they actually felt really good to aim the Arrow and Hookshot with. Aside from major adjusting your line of sight it operated seamlessly. Felt really crisp.


 
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You will find out who you are not a thousand times, before you ever discover who you are. I hope you find peace in yourself and learn to love instead of hate.
Contemplating selling my xbox so I can put money towards the switch, I really want this and SM Odyssey


 
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Contemplating selling my xbox so I can put money towards the switch, I really want this and SM Odyssey
If you have a Wii U, I'd recommend getting it on that, tbh. Getting a Switch so early on would be a risky investment, I think.

wait what am i saying you don't have a fucking wii u lmao
Last Edit: February 18, 2017, 02:26:09 PM by Verbatim


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Finally playing Majora's Mask. Up until now I'd never gotten far in the game; I found the time mechanic frustrating because as a kid I'd play rental copies and have no idea how to pick up during other saves. I'm just starting the Great Bay Temple and so far really enjoying all the different masks and mechanics there are. It's pretty disappointing how many in-game assets and locations are direct copies from OoT, and it seems like the plot is a lot weaker than OoT, but it's still fun.

I'm working on a 100% completion, only using guides to steer me towards heart pieces rather than how to work through puzzles and dungeons.


 
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It's pretty disappointing how many in-game assets and locations are direct copies from OoT, and it seems like the plot is a lot weaker than OoT, but it's still fun.
you'll roll your eyes at this, but i really love the re-used assets from an artistic standpoint--i'm 99% sure it was intentional

and even if it wasn't, and nintendo was just being cheap, i still feel that it plays into the game's narrative beautifully

also, define "weaker plot"

the plot--specifically the lore--is actually quite rich and is generally considered one of the deepest in the franchise
Last Edit: February 18, 2017, 04:55:41 PM by Verbatim


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tfw a stundent working an unstable job so may never own a switch

Feels bad. And this thing is almost guaranteed to get a monster hunter and Pokemon.


 
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tfw a stundent working an unstable job so may never own a switch

Feels bad. And this thing is almost guaranteed to get a monster hunter and Pokemon.
this sort of thing is why i predict the switch will bomb


Turkey | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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It's pretty disappointing how many in-game assets and locations are direct copies from OoT, and it seems like the plot is a lot weaker than OoT, but it's still fun.
you'll roll your eyes at this, but i really love the re-used assets from an artistic standpoint--i'm 99% sure it was intentional
Intentional, as in 'other than an inexpensive way to design a game'? It's absolutely not a bad thing --  it feels more like a mod of OoT, but so much is similar or exactly the same that I wish they'd used it to explore those possibilities. Kotake and Koume are in the game, but they're apparently different. Why not make them the same characters whose lives are changed because the disaster in OoT was averted? I'd apply that question to any character who seems to have been transported to Termina. Or Termina could be some sort of expression of Link's grief, ultimately leading him towards the disappointing life we know he had, ending in him becoming the Hero's Shade.

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also, define "weaker plot"

the plot--specifically the lore--is actually quite rich and is generally considered one of the deepest in the franchise

If you have any sources about that I'd be interested in reading, but I can't really see why it would be considered deep. All of the sages from OoT are involved in the story and memorable; there isn't a single character I've come across that seems to have any bearing on the story or be particularly interesting. I'm only halfway through the game, but side quests feel tedious, and while I get that I'm supposed to feel this way, the constant resetting of progress I make in each area is unsatisfying. The antagonist is just the mask, and isn't really a character in any appreciable way. It is absent from the game until the final fight. The moon is totally unexplained, which is weird. Why does it have a face? The giants are typical Zelda macguffins of the highest order. The two dungeons I've done so far are very short, and badly designed. The game is supposed to be thematically darker than OoT, but I've yet to see it. Yeah, the town getting destroyed would be bad, but I have the ability to control time. The time limit serves to hamper my ability to complete tasks, not to drive Link's actions or the plot. In OoT, we saw firsthand the effects of the villain's success, and (solely in my opinion) it had more of a narrative impact than MM.

I presume that defeating Majora's Mask in the end ultimately solves most of the problems we fix throughout the game anyway, right? The swamp is cleansed, the ocean is...not foggy, or whatever is wrong with it? The goron village stop being snowy? How much more interesting would it have been to have a slightly longer time limit, but let your accomplishments persist? I.e., you have the ability to reset the clock, but what you accomplished is erased and won't be magically fixed by the deus ex machina waiting for me at the end of the game.

I really like the game, don't get me wrong. I'm just nitpicking while it's fresh in my mind. The 3 day limit is an interesting narrative choice that could have been implemented much worse than it is now.


 
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Intentional, as in 'other than an inexpensive way to design a game'?
i mean, there's not a whole lot else i could've meant by that--i don't think i'd have made the objection if i thought nintendo really was just being lazy, and like i said in my edit--even if they did, i think it factors into the game's narrative in a beautiful way

it's hard to discuss any of this, though, given that you still need to finish the game and all

hopefully by the end of the game, it'll click for you
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Kotake and Koume are in the game, but they're apparently different. Why not make them the same characters whose lives are changed because the disaster in OoT was averted?
no one really knows--but wow, i'm really glad they didn't go that route

there are many "theories" as to why all the characters recur with different names/jobs/lives--most of which are pretty spoiler-heavy, so it's really hard to discuss them--but there are justifications, and not only do they make sense, i find them emotionally satisfying as well

it's clear from the start of the game that, when link falls inside of that tree, and a some trippy 2001: A Space Odyssey shit starts happening, that he finds himself in a strange Alice in Wonderland type situation, where reality is almost totally bent out of whack

in other words, it should be immediately apparent to you that the game is attempting to make a deeper statement than most other zelda titles

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there isn't a single character I've come across that seems to have any bearing on the story or be particularly interesting.
well, that's sad to hear

i found every single one of them interesting, actually--and the fact that they don't have any bearing on the story is part of their appeal, because why should they? they're just regular people living their own lives

not to mention, the fact that you get to know each and every one of citizens of clock town during your adventure tends to compound the sense of urgency you have for your mission--and as a result of getting to know them all, you genuinely care for them, and on a personal level

this level of gravitas isn't present in any other game i've ever played--i'm sure there are modern titles that have done this sort of thing better, but majora's mask was released over 17 years ago, so i consider it an absolute marvel

so it's a shame that you haven't been able to appreciate that for whatever reason

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side quests feel tedious
the side quests are the meat of the game, and the source of all its artistic value--so idk what to tell you about that. learn to like them?

the only one i didn't really like was the quest involving the don gero mask--that one was stupid tedious and unrewarding

the rest range from "cool" to "fucking amazing"

knowing where you currently are in the game, you haven't been able to complete the fucking amazing one yet--i'd like to know your thoughts when that one's finished, assuming you have the patience for it

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The moon is totally unexplained, which is weird. Why does it have a face?
i could answer that, but would you say that the fact that you have all these questions is a testament to the game's depth

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The giants are typical Zelda macguffins of the highest order. The two dungeons I've done so far are very short, and badly designed.
the dungeons are considered one of the weaker aspects of the game, yeah

i thoroughly enjoyed all but the first one, but i never really brought them up anyway so w/e

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The game is supposed to be thematically darker than OoT, but I've yet to see it.
you're kidding

right
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Yeah, the town getting destroyed would be bad, but I have the ability to control time. The time limit serves to hamper my ability to complete tasks, not to drive Link's actions or the plot. In OoT, we saw firsthand the effects of the villain's success, and (solely in my opinion) it had more of a narrative impact than MM.
ignoring the music, the atmosphere, the dialogue, etc.

how many sidequests have you bothered to do, exactly

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I'm just nitpicking
big time
Last Edit: February 18, 2017, 06:43:32 PM by Verbatim


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Snipping a lot because I feel there's not really much to say in response. It's mostly an issue of "I don't like X for reason Y, and you disagree".
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The game is supposed to be thematically darker than OoT, but I've yet to see it.
you're kidding

right
This is the biggest bone of contention I've had in reading about the game. There's really no in-game evidence to suggest MM is some sort of dream or deathbed fantasy; the Hyrule Historia seems to consider it as a real occurrence, however removed from the rest of Hyrule as it may be. It does feel really upbeat in pretty much every location I've been to -- yeah, there's some scared people or others gleefully ignoring impending doom, but the tension is undercut by the complete lack of stakes. Even the tiny moon with a comical face on it is kind of goofy and funny. Compare anything in the game to the feeling of finishing the first section of OoT -- bringing the stones to the temple of time and claiming the master sword -- then walking outside realizing Hyrule has been conquered, etc...there's nothing like it. Look, I don't see it as a contest, but everywhere I read the recurring line is that MM is so dark and depressing, but I've found the NPCs and world to be a lot more fun and upbeat than OoT.

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how many sidequests have you bothered to do, exactly
All of them up until the Great Bay Temple. I'm going for 100% completion. My favorite is fighting Them at Romani Ranch. The quest itself was really boring, but it was funny and something really unusual for a Zelda game.

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I'm just nitpicking
big time
Well look man, I'm trying to minimize my complaints so you don't feel I'm insulting something you're defending. Don't throw it back in my face.
Last Edit: February 18, 2017, 07:48:08 PM by Töqi


 
Verbatim
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Well look man, I'm trying to minimize my complaints so you don't feel I'm insulting something you're defending. Don't throw it back in my face.
well, sorry--i'm just letting you know that i don't disagree with the entirety of your post

i feel like you have some valid concerns and unique takeaways, but as soon as you started questioning the game's tone, i just wasn't sure how you could've missed so many things, which i'm prepared to go over exhaustively

i'm glad you brought romani ranch up and finished the alien invasion quest--that section will come into play later
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This is the biggest bone of contention I've had in reading about the game. There's really no in-game evidence to suggest MM is some sort of dream or deathbed fantasy; the Hyrule Historia seems to consider it as a real occurrence
bear in mind that there was no hyrule historia at the time of this game's release, and the established timeline--while indisputably canon--does contain various contradictions, as a result of eiji aonuma et al never really having a rigidly defined timeline for the series in the first place

the minish cap is one of the earliest stories, placed in an era before ganondorf even existed--yet there are moblins in that game, which are monsters created by ganon specifically in his image, so... how do you explain that? just don't think about it

or maybe because it's the legend of zelda, and the games are simply retellings of older stories--and the more legends get passed down, the more exaggerated or inaccurate certain elements will become, etc.

regardless, i find that zelda games are best enjoyed as singular, standalone experiences--like i said, the games typically don't have continuity in mind anyway, unless it's a direct sequel
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It really does feel really upbeat in pretty much every location I've been to -- yeah, there's some scared people or others gleefully ignoring impending doom, but the tension is undercut by the complete lack of stakes.
I don't know what you mean, to be honest.

The moon is threatening to fall and destroy Termina, and its fate rests solely in the hands of a ten year old boy who has the ability to move through time. He can go back three days all he wants, but that alone isn't going to get him anywhere--literally. He still has to make a pilgrimage to these four temples and slay all the cursed beasts that lurk within. Slowing the passage of time can make things easier for him, but the fact remains that if he doesn't slay the beast in time--before it slays him--everyone else will die a burning death, too.

Going back in time is merely a neutralizer--it doesn't really lessen the tension at all, because no problems have been solved. In fact, everything gets reset. You could be in the middle of a dungeon and have to reset, because you're already well into the third night. That shit can get intense. So I'm really not sure what stakes you're not seeing here.
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Look, I don't see it as a contest, but everywhere I read the recurring line is that MM is so dark and depressing, but I've found the NPCs and world to be a lot more fun and upbeat than OoT.
H'okay, gotta stretch out a bit for this next one. I'm gonna try to list off all the dark shit in the game up to where you're currently at, because I never wanna read the sentence "Majora's Mask is upbeat" ever again:

Before the game even begins, the first thing we see is a pitch-dark screen with a large mask floating into the frame. This creates a low, bassy whoosh noise--it's disquieting. It lets you know right away that this game is headed towards some spooky territory.

The rest of the intro is fairly upbeat, I'll give you that--however, I always thought that the theme of Clock Town had an undeniable sense of glib sadness about it. But that's pretty subjective--my aim here is to list things that are indisputably dark in tone, or at least help to create that effect.

At the start of the game, after Link takes a tumble into that 2001 tree, Skull Kid's character is finally introduced to us.


And it turns out, he's a big bully. Not only does he steal Link's ocarina, he steals Epona as well--Link's best and only real companion--while heavily implying that he did something cruel to her. "What's with that stupid horse of yours? It doesn't listen to a word I said to it. There's no point in riding a thing like that. So I did you a favor and got rid of it." "Got rid of it" could mean anything--either way, the horse is stated to be gone, and the bullying doesn't end there. On a whim, he transforms Link into a helpless Deku Scrub--which is a very disturbing sequence in and of itself--and proceeds to leave him there by his miserable lonesome, laughing hysterically.

Everything about this scene is demoralizing as fuck. Skull Kid's theme plays throughout the sequence, creating a nasty, bone-chilling atmosphere. The transformation sequence itself, with the dark lighting, strange camera angles, and bizarre imagery, was enough to give some children nightmares. It's just a really dark and cynical way to open your game, let alone a Zelda game. It cuts to the player's core by taking away possession (ocarina), loved one (Epona), and identity, and Link is left a hollow husk--literally--of what he used to be.

Then we have ourselves the Happy Mask Salesman--a perturbing fellow who presents Link with his mission--casually--and greets you with the arc words, "You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you?"


His expressions, combined with his disturbed, half-hearted chuckle--especially the way it reverberates--create a palpable sense of foreboding that lingers. The salesman may or may not be a little mad (as in crazy), and you don't even know if you can trust him. Nonetheless, he almost has this uncanny yet quasi-godlike je ne sais quoi about him. It's creepy. It's interesting. It's a little on the dark side. You won't find him in a fucking Kirby game.

Also, again--I gotta stress the lighting here. It's not the kind of atmosphere you'd want at a tea party.

So, as you're exploring Clock Town for the first time, it becomes abundantly clear to you why you only have three days to complete your task. When you look up, you catch a frightening sight--the moon is mere miles away from the earth. The expression on its face could read as fear, anguish, or lividity. Either way, it's a discomforting sight, and it only gets closer and closer as the days go by--threatening to crash into the world, commencing apocalyptica. If you had your ocarina with you, you could easily prevent this from happening--but if you fail, this will happen:

YouTube

Which speaks for itself. I won't insult your intelligence and explain to you why this scene isn't sunshine and rainbows.

The reason the moon has that expression is because the designers wanted to leave an imprint in your mind. They wanted to make it so that the moon is able to be seen no matter where you are in the game--allowing it to serve as a constant, looming reminder of your most critical mission. This creates a sense of dread, urgency and, of course, an inimitably dour atmosphere. We're not frolicking in Mushroom Kingdom.

As the moon draws nearer, everything in the game starts responding. The visuals get darker, the townsfolk become restless, and your surroundings even begin to glow blood red on the third night. The music, too--remember how I mentioned how the Clock Town theme has a sense of sadness about it earlier? Well, the reprise of the Clock Town theme on the second and especially the third days introduce some minor-key elements which could be described, from a music theory perspective, as objectively darker than the initial theme.

When the second day ends, a unique visual effect happens involving the harrowing sound of the Clock Town bell. Which is the creepiest fucking bell EVER, by the way. It's audible no matter where you are in the game, and it sends chills down my spine every time I hear it. Anyway, when the second day ends, the screen starts shrinking in time with the bell tolls. This is one of my favorite "little things" about the game. It's scary when it happens, because it symbolizes the sand in Link's hourglass beginning to deplete, quickly, one ba-dung! at a time. This, of course, plays into the game's sunny atmosphere as well.

When the third day fades into night, the music just... stops. You hear nothing but crickets, torches, and other ambient noises as you try to find that goddamn Moon's Tear. You're officially running out of time, so the music stops, as if to say, "Where are you? What's taking you so long? I thought you were supposed to be the hero?"

Then, if you take longer still, you hear what is possibly the darkest Zelda theme in the entire franchise:

YouTube

No longer does the music have any semblance of levity--just sheer, despondent hopelessness. This is the song of all happiness in the world snuffing out. What some may interpret as a sense of fear from this song, I actually detect a sense of acceptance, too; the hero is absent, and the moon is inches away from destroying everything--but it's as though the world humbly accepts its fate, in the same way a skydiver might when his parachute malfunctions, and he's given a moment's peace to accept his impending death. Not a happy thought. It's actually the most depressing song I've ever heard that was published by Nintendo of all companies--it's gorgeous.

I've went over most of the general stuff, so at this point, I think I can start going into some specific moments as well.

The game's entire plot, depending on how you look at it, could be seen as terribly depressing in and of itself. As you help your fellow townsfolk with their problems, you reap your rewards and immediately go back in time--resetting all your good deeds. The fact that you like all the townsfolk, and you want to help them, only exacerbates the futility of your actions. While you know deep down that the rewards you reap will only help you on your critical path in the long-term, you can't help but think the entire thing is all for naught--and this, by your own admission, is a pretty sad state of affairs.

If you try to complete all the sidequests in a single three-day cycle, you'll be able to do a surprisingly high number of them--but you won't be able to finish them all. There are certain scheduled events that overlap, and if you want to be as good of a Samaritan as possible, you'll have to make a few sacrifices. Link cannot save everybody by himself--not even with all the time in the world; he's still only human. (he's actually not human but you know what i mean)

This theme of futility is ever-present--and it's quite the depressing message to send to kids, even though it's all too true in the real world. There's simply not enough time in the world to save everybody on your own. If that's not dark, I don't know what is--and I do.


Let's take a trip here for a second. You have a little girl who lives with big sister on the farm. She's seen aliens before, but big sister doesn't believe her--so she asks you to help her take them out when the sun comes down. Scary proposition, but not what I want to focus on. Failing this mission results in the girl getting abducted. When she returns, she's left with a vacant expression on her face--memory completely wiped--big sister emotionally crushed that she didn't listen to her earlier.

That's unsettling on its own, but it's nothing compared to this: if you save the ranch from the aliens and visit the sisters on the third night, you can trigger an exchange that wrenches at your heart when you realize the implications.

In Zelda, there exists a beverage called Chateau Romani. Which is beer. It's basically just beer, or some kind of alcoholic, inebriating substance. Characters drink it and they become intoxicated--Gorman, the ornery Luigi-looking fellow, actually appears to have a drinking problem; you can see him at the milk bar drinking away his sorrows after he learns of the carnival's cancellation. His dialogue during this part is... less coherent than that of a sober person, shall we say.

Anyway, back to the ranch. On the third night, you can find the two sisters in the barn, tending to one of the cows. If you talk to little sister, she'll say, "We're milking the cows tonight! It's 'Chateau Romani.' It's the first time I get to drink it! Until now, my sister always said 'Wait until you're an adult.' But why now?" Big sister responds only with three sets of ellipses.

Later in the conversation, she'll say, "Sleep with me in my bed tonight, OK, Romani?"

As you've noticed, Cremia, the big sister, is one of the few characters in the game who isn't blithely unaware of Termina's impending doom. In contrast, she's actually staunchly aware of the moon's descent, and she fears for her and her sister's life--but she knows in her heart that there'll be no escape from their destruction. The last thing she says before entering her house is, "See you...tomorrow...OK?" while Romani cheerfully adds, "See you tomorrow!"

This whole exchange seems to suggest that Cremia had her little sister drink the Chateau Romani in order to dull her senses so that she would be remain blissfully unaware of their fiery doom--the implications of which speak for themselves. That's some insanely dark shit for a Nintendo game.

I could go on and on and on, dude--it doesn't end there. That's not even touching upon the rest of the game, or even the five stages of grief thing that I'm sure you've read about. It also doesn't touch upon any of the minor characters and their darker moments--of which there are countless. I think I've brought up enough stuff to make my point, though--all these things work together to create an extraordinarily dark atmosphere for a Nintendo game.

If you don't see how any of the things I mentioned could be considered dark, I genuinely don't know what to say, really. Much of what I brought up is psychological--I can describe with precise verbiage how the game makes ME feel, but I can't in any way make you feel the same way I do. In general, if you still don't think the game is dark, I'd say that MAYBE you have unrealistic expectations of how dark a Rated E video game by Nintendo can get.

Me, personally, it's the kind of game I can only play in a certain mood, and specifically at night only. It's one of those games--I'd play it on Halloween, because the aesthetic just fits so well. The game DOES have its lighthearted moments, but they're all overshadowed by the mountains of cold, dour, depressing shit that comprise its lore and thematic structure.

I'm glad you're enjoying yourself with the game overall. But to call the game's atmosphere "upbeat," to me, shows a massive disconnect with how the entire game is designed. It's about as cheerful as Dark Souls, in my eyes. Yeah, I'll go there.
Last Edit: February 18, 2017, 11:01:24 PM by Verbatim


 
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OH, AND ANOTHER THING I FORGOT TO MENTION

YouTube

The mask transformations are legitimately terrifying. They're just so un-Nintendo.

I mean, they're awesome, but they always freaked me the fuck out when I was a kid.

anyway, yeah--i didn't mean to nerd out on you, but this game is (obviously) pretty precious to me
Last Edit: February 18, 2017, 10:44:48 PM by Verbatim


 
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#13
That was a god damn pleasure to read.


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If you don't see how any of the things I mentioned could be considered dark, I genuinely don't know what to say, really.

First of all, I appreciate the unnecessary thoroughness of your post. You clearly put a lot of effort into it. That said, I'm not trying to argue the game isn't dark, just that it's been overstated in my opinion. I don't want to disrespect your effort by responding sentence by sentence (because I don't disagree with it; I noticed and enjoyed everything you mentioned). Quite a bit of the darker elements take place in the first three-day cycle, in which you get back your ocarina, your horse (well, I saw her safe and sound in the ranch), and your body. The mask salesman doesn't turn out to be an evil guy, he's just an overtly creepy guy with a neat story, and Skull Kid isn't even the villain.

The music is the strongest conveyor of mood in the game, and I do agree it's fantastic.

'Upbeat' may be too strong of a word, but look at some of the things you do in the main storyline: you save a monkey who was trying to rescue a princess, have a goofy adventure with two villains from OoT, clean a swamp and return it to its normal, lush greenery, help a Goron hero's spirit rest peacefully, restore an entire Goron village to spring, sneak through a pirate fortress to save some Zora eggs who then hatch and write a song for you, save the spirit of a rock n roll Zora frontman and take his place in the band while having a bunch of fun jam sessions with them, clean up the ocean...the list goes on. All while playing what seems like dozens of fun mini-games. Sure, Link's a kid, but he's the hero of time, who already saved Hyrule from Ganondorf and lived as an adult (and don't forget the OoT opens with a vision of Hyrule burning and Ganondorf chasing a young girl, then the death of Link's parent figure, and soon after the game pulls the rug out from under the player by showing Hyrule decimated after we believed we'd saved it; Zelda games have always been pretty dark under scrutiny). I appreciate the darker themes, but I don't feel that overwhelming dread you seem to while playing. I can fix everything by going back in time. Weirdly enough, I do feel that about Wind Waker. The idea of Hyrule being completely underwater, frozen in time, and seeing the races changed and adapted to their bleak, island-hopping life is really depressing.

It's important that you point out Dark Souls, since I think the two series are actually very similar. After playing Bloodborne again recently, MM feels very familiar and almost like a companion game, especially with the cyclical story elements and the symbolism of the moon.
Last Edit: February 18, 2017, 11:27:09 PM by Töqi