Best character ever.
What has always bothered me about these movements is that these social justice advocates seem to be shooting themselves in the foot. One of the main reasons that game developers are so fond of the white, straight male protagonists is not because they are evil agents of the patriarchy trying to keep women and minorities down, but because it is the only safe choice. A white, straight man, you can put it any scenario. Give him any background, make him suffer any type of abuse and have virtually anything happen to him, and no one will complain or give a shit. And this is something that you cannot do with a character who's a woman or part of a minority.If you go with a black guy, you can't have him be captured and enslaved, because that'll be a clear endorsment of racism. You can't have him be beaten by a white guy, or it'll be promoting white supremacy. You can't have him act too white, because that'll be forcing a person of color into a white-approved role and will entail ignoring and forgetting his cultural identity. Yet you also can't have him act too “black”, because that'd be enforcing racial stereotypes. He can't be around too many white people, because then he turns into just a token character, yet you can't have him around too many blacks either, because then you might be furthering segregation and showing that races should be separate.If you go with a woman, then you can't give her a partner, because it'll be using her as an instrument of romance to entice male players. You can't dress or shape her the way you want, even if part of it has to do with the story, because having too prominent breasts, a slim waist and skin showing, you're objectifying and sexualizing women. You can't give her any background or storyline that you want, because a lot of themes are just absolutely taboo. You can't have her endure too much violence, or it'll be endorsing male on female violence. You can't have her interact with too many men or talk about men, because then it'll be too male-centered. You also can't have her interact with too many women or talk about them, because it'll be seen as a male (lesbian?) fantasy. You can't have her act too (typically) feminine, or you'll be treating them as an inferior gender, yet you also can't have them be too male, because then you're saying that acting masculine is the only acceptable way for females to get anywhere. You can't have her lose against males, or it'll be portraying women as weak. You can't have her receive help from any men, let alone be rescued by one, or you'll have the damsel in distress trope.While pointing out these issues is obviously a necessary step towards overcoming them, it can cross a line. Instead of just making game developers aware of a lack of female leads and giving them the idea to portray women differently, this is also leading to negative and adverse effects. Game developers are more likely to go for the safe choice of the default straight white male, then to take the risk of including more females or minorities. Because all it takes is one slight misstep to start a feminist-inspired public outcry followed by a twitter hate campaign and boycot action. And not only is there a whole lot that can go wrong with using more female or minority characters (as opposed to the typical white male), it can also really stiffle creative freedom. A lot of themes, story lines and plots become a no-go for all of the abovementioned reasons. Being treated equally should entail both the good and the bad, not just what certain people deem good and acceptable. "Yes, we definitely want more women in video games. But only if they're portrayed EXACTLY the way we want them to be. So no, you can't have her be oppressed, abused or raped. And no, you can't have her be beaten or overcome by a male. You also can't treat her in a stereotypical manner, but don't forget to include her female identity too! She also can't ever be rescued or helped by a man, or portrayed in any weak way, because that's endorsing the patriarchy. And no, you can't have her show any skin, even if it's part of the story, because that's sexist and objectifying women. So yeah, we want more women in games. But only if they're basically infallible and nothing too bad happens to them, and that they always triumph in the end."The attitude needs to change on both ends of the spectrum. Can't have one without the other. A certain change of representation of women in video games is definitely desirable, but that also comes with a kind of responsibility and all the bad that goes with it.Edit: I didn't mean for this to be this long, but class wasn't all that interesting and I got somewhat carried away.
What has always bothered me about these movements is that these social justice advocates seem to be shooting themselves in the foot. One of the main reasons that game developers are so fond of the white, straight male protagonists is not because they are evil agents of the patriarchy trying to keep women and minorities down, but because it is the only safe choice. A white, straight man, you can put it any scenario. Give him any background, make him suffer any type of abuse and have virtually anything happen to him, and no one will complain or give a shit. And this is something that you cannot do with a character who's a woman or part of a minority.If you go with a black guy, you can't have him be captured and enslaved, because that'll be a clear endorsment of racism. You can't have him be beaten by a white guy, or it'll be promoting white supremacy. You can't have him act too white, because that'll be forcing a person of color into a white-approved role and will entail ignoring and forgetting his cultural identity. Yet you also can't have him act too “black”, because that'd be enforcing racial stereotypes. He can't be around too many white people, because then he turns into just a token character, yet you can't have him around too many blacks either, because then you might be furthering segregation and showing that races should be separate.If you go with a woman, then you can't give her a partner, because it'll be using her as an instrument of romance to entice male players. You can't dress or shape her the way you want, even if part of it has to do with the story, because having too prominent breasts, a slim waist and skin showing, you're objectifying and sexualizing women. You can't give her any background or storyline that you want, because a lot of themes are just absolutely taboo. You can't have her endure too much violence, or it'll be endorsing male on female violence. You can't have her interact with too many men or talk about men, because then it'll be too male-centered. You also can't have her interact with too many women or talk about them, because it'll be seen as a male (lesbian?) fantasy. You can't have her act too (typically) feminine, or you'll be treating them as an inferior gender, yet you also can't have them be too male, because then you're saying that acting masculine is the only acceptable way for females to get anywhere. You can't have her lose against males, or it'll be portraying women as weak. You can't have her receive help from any men, let alone be rescued by one, or you'll have the damsel in distress trope.
While pointing out these issues is obviously a necessary step towards overcoming them, it can cross a line. Instead of just making game developers aware of a lack of female leads and giving them the idea to portray women differently, this is also leading to negative and adverse effects. Game developers are more likely to go for the safe choice of the default straight white male, then to take the risk of including more females or minorities. Because all it takes is one slight misstep to start a feminist-inspired public outcry followed by a twitter hate campaign and boycot action.
And not only is there a whole lot that can go wrong with using more female or minority characters (as opposed to the typical white male), it can also really stiffle creative freedom.
A lot of themes, story lines and plots become a no-go for all of the abovementioned reasons. Being treated equally should entail both the good and the bad, not just what certain people deem good and acceptable. "Yes, we definitely want more women in video games. But only if they're portrayed EXACTLY the way we want them to be. So no, you can't have her be oppressed, abused or raped. And no, you can't have her be beaten or overcome by a male. You also can't treat her in a stereotypical manner, but don't forget to include her female identity too! She also can't ever be rescued or helped by a man, or portrayed in any weak way, because that's endorsing the patriarchy. And no, you can't have her show any skin, even if it's part of the story, because that's sexist and objectifying women. So yeah, we want more women in games. But only if they're basically infallible and nothing too bad happens to them, and that they always triumph in the end."
Quote from: Flee on April 01, 2015, 06:37:15 AMDon't forget the part where minority characters have to have their minority characteristic be their entire character arc. AKA any gay/trans/racial minority Bioware character.
Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on April 01, 2015, 11:10:34 AMQuote from: Flee on April 01, 2015, 06:37:15 AMDon't forget the part where minority characters have to have their minority characteristic be their entire character arc. AKA any gay/trans/racial minority Bioware character.That's not true either.
Played any Bioware games lately? There are at least three main characters whose entire personal arc revolves around their sexual orientation in DA:I alone. It's fine for these arcs to exist, and Dorian's in DA:I is particularly good, but when that's all that's explored about the person, it kind of defeats the point.
Just because there are games where that sort of thing happens doesn't mean that that's what feminists want, or say that you "have" to have in your game, in order for them to be appeased.
The problem with the Tumblr-brand crowd isn't feminism; it's misandry in the guise of feminism. Feminists don't subscribe to this twisted view of what can and can't be done with characters, this is (as Verb said) a vocal minority. The only companies who pander to that crowd are the ones that need to hide their skeletons the most (like EA).
You could've saved yourself a whole lot of writing if you realized that this is the group I'm talking about.
My whole post was simply an effort to explain why game developers are reluctant to open up to more diverse characters that are female or part of a minority. Because even though this group is just a minority, it's a very vocal and powerful one. The internet is growing ever more important, and a single (radical) feminist hashtag or spree of opinion pieces on varies gaming and social media outlets can be incredibly damaging to a game developer.
Because even though it is only a small group that thinks like this, short and un-nuanced keywords are an easy way to manipulate the masses. All it takes is some crazy extremists on the internet who take something in gaming a bit too seriously, and it doesn't have to take long before the watered down version hits the mainstream media and outlets where the generally less informed people will just get on the train of "these people think it's bad for women, so I too will share join the trend because I'm a feminist." Gamergate is a pretty good example of this.
To be fair about the Batgirl cover change, they admitted that the cover didn't go through the proper channels for approval and it didn't match the comic's tone. The people who pointed that out got harassment though, which is definitely not okay.
Quote from: Prime Meridia on April 01, 2015, 02:33:29 PMTo be fair about the Batgirl cover change, they admitted that the cover didn't go through the proper channels for approval and it didn't match the comic's tone. The people who pointed that out got harassment though, which is definitely not okay.Harassment from whom? The people who wanted it to change, or wanted to keep it?Personally, I never really figured out what the big deal was over that cover anyway. It's an example of the type of "activism" that I wouldn't really support, unless it was spelled out to me in plain English what the problem was...
I swear Verbatim's posts are some kind of internet based Bio-Weapon designed to kill brain cells.Evidently it's working.
Quote from: ChaosMetalDragon™ on April 01, 2015, 04:08:19 PMI swear Verbatim's posts are some kind of internet based Bio-Weapon designed to kill brain cells.Evidently it's working.Hyperbole is your favorite tool, isn't it?
Anita Sarkeesian - Positive Female Characters in Video Games
