Anita Sarkeesian - Are Women Too Hard To Animate?

 
Verbatim
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TRIGGER WARNING
THIS THREAD CONTAINS A TRIGGER WARNING
(WHAT AN ASININE THING TO GET TRIGGERED BY)

WAHHH I HATE WHEN PEPLE WARN ME ABOUT THINGS
TRIGGER WARNING
THIS THREAD CONTAINS FEMINISM
HAHAHAHA I'M A BETTER PERSON THAN YOU



Anyway, here's the fucking video:

YouTube
Transcript, aka "WAHHH I DON'T WANNA GIVE HER AD REVENUE EVEN THOUGH SHE DOESN'T PUT ADS IN HER VIDEOS"
At the 2014 Electronic Entertainment Expo, the game development company Ubisoft debuted a trailer showcasing the cooperative mode in their upcoming game Assassin’s Creed Unity. One thing viewers quickly noticed about the trailer was that all the assassins in it were male. When questioned about why female characters weren’t an option in this mode, the game’s creative director said that although there were originally plans to allow for female assassins, the development team couldn’t add them because it would require “double the animations, double the voices, and double the visual assets.” Meanwhile, a level designer on the game stated that including female assassins would have meant recreating 8000 animations on a new skeleton. These comments led to an explosion of controversy and criticism on Twitter, with many people using the sarcastic hashtag “women are too hard to animate.”

A number of experienced game developers joined the chorus of voices calling out the absurdity of Ubisoft’s claims. Animator Jonathan Cooper, who had previously worked on Assassin’s Creed III for Ubisoft, tweeted, “I would estimate this to be a day or two’s work. Not a replacement of 8000 animations.” And Manveer Heir of Bioware summed up what Ubisoft was actually saying: “We don’t really care to put the effort in to make a woman assassin.”

Ubisoft’s disregard for female character options didn’t stop with Unity. Also at E3 2014, the director of Far Cry 4 admitted to a similar issue with that game’s online co-op mode, saying, “We were inches away from having you be able to select a girl or a guy as your co-op buddy.” Again, the excuse for why this option wasn’t available was that it would just be too much work. And yet again, what they were really saying was that they just couldn’t be bothered to do the work it would have taken to provide that option. Though it’s worth pointing out that in the two years since this controversy, Ubisoft has made clear efforts to improve the representation of women in the core Assassin’s Creed games, with the most recent entry, Assassin’s Creed Syndicate, giving the option to play as Evie Frye through much of the campaign.

Of course, Ubisoft weren’t and aren’t the only ones with this apathetic attitude toward female inclusion. In fact, not doing the necessary work to include women has long been the norm in the video game industry. The FIFA soccer game series, which had its first entry in 1993, took over 20 years before finally introducing female teams in FIFA 16.

CLIP: “I’m in the game.”

And it took ten years for Call of Duty to introduce female soldiers into its competitive multiplayer with 2013’s Call of Duty: Ghosts. The long-running Battlefield franchise, on the other hand, has still never allowed for playable female characters in its multiplayer modes.

There’s an important conversation to be had about the ways in which military shooters work to glorify violence, but as long as we’re going to have such games, it’s actually better when they include female combatants in them. Now you might be asking yourself, “Doesn’t having female enemies in a game perpetuate violence against women?” And that’s a good, fair question. When we refer to depictions of violence against women, we’re generally discussing situations in which women are being attacked or victimized specifically because they are women, reinforcing a perception of women as victims.

Such scenarios are very different from those in which women are presented as active participants. In the Street Fighter games, for instance, when Chun-Li and Ryu fight each other, this isn’t considered violence against women, because the two characters are presented as being on more or less equal footing, and because Chun-Li is an active participant who isn’t being targeted or attacked specifically because she’s a woman.

Similarly, the waves of male attackers players face in so many games are typically not passive victims. They are active participants in the conflict, and importantly, the violence against them isn’t gendered. Players fight with them because they’re on the opposing side, not specifically because they are men.

Unfortunately, when female combatants do appear in games, they are often presented in sexualized ways which inevitably lend the player’s attacks an air of gendered violence. In Saints Row The Third’s so-called “Whored Mode,” for instance, players must defeat waves of sexualized women, sometimes beating them to death with a large purple dildo.

In the 2009 game Wolfenstein, the Elite Guard are a special all-female enemy unit whose absurd uniforms sexualize not only the female characters themselves but also player’s acts of violence against them.

Similarly, in 2012’s Hitman Absolution, the Saints are a special unit of female assassins who wear latex fetish gear underneath nun’s habits. It’s a ludicrous design choice that is transparently intended to sexualize these enemies.

And in Metal Gear Solid 4, the Beauty & the Beast unit is an enemy group made up of five female soldiers that players fight over the course of the game. At a certain point during these encounters, each boss sheds her armor and appears as a woman in form-fitting attire.

CLIP: “It’s all so funny.”

If players then avoid the Beauty’s deadly embrace for several minutes without killing or neutralizing her, the game transports them to a white room where equipping the camera results in the character making sultry poses. Funny how that doesn’t happen with the male bosses in the game.

Whenever female combatants are dressed in sexualizing attire, it sets them noticeably apart from other enemy units. It’s intended to make the player’s encounters with them sexually titillating, and that’s particularly troubling considering that those encounters often involve fighting and killing those characters. Violence against female characters should never be presented as “sexy”.

The way for games to handle female combatants is not to present them as sexualized treats for the player. Rather, it’s to present them simply as combatants who happen to be women fighting alongside their male counterparts on equal footing.

For all of its many, many problems, one thing Bioshock Infinite did right was to include non-sexualized female officers on Columbia’s police force. And in Assassin’s Creed Syndicate, both the player’s gang and the enemy gang have rank-and-file female members who fight alongside the men.

Despite the presence of female combatants in games like these, there is still a tendency for game studios to treat female representation as some kind of extravagant goal, rather than simply treating it as standard in the same way they handle male representation. The excuse that I hear most often for the absence of female combatants in games is that players wouldn’t believe it. But games, even ones that draw on historical locations or events like the Assassin’s Creed series, create their own worlds and set the tone for what we will or won’t believe. To participate in the worlds games create, we happily accept time travel, superpowers, ancient alien civilizations, the ability to carry infinite items, the idea that eating a hot dog can instantly heal your wounds, and a million other fictions. It’s certainly not too much to ask that these fictional worlds give us believable female combatants too.

The media we engage with has a powerful impact on our ideas of what’s believable and what’s not. Games like Assassin’s Creed Syndicate demonstrate that when the existence of female combatants is presented as straightforward, normal and believable, players have no problem believing it. And they shouldn’t, since, unlike those magical healing hot dogs I mentioned, female combatants actually exist.

kind of a unique subject, but no doubt people are gonna get triggered by this thread's very existence anyway, so here we are


 
Luciana
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I know the word trigger is an actual medical term or whatever used now


but it still annoys me because of how it first cropped up on the internet. All I can think of is tumblrites. I'll watch later I guess.


 
Verbatim
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I know the word trigger is an actual medical term or whatever used now

but it still annoys me because of how it first cropped up on the internet. All I can think of is tumblrites. I'll watch later I guess.
i mean, it's literally no different than those "viewer discretion is advised" disclaimers on basically any show you'd watch, or when a news reporter says something like, "the following images may be disturbing to some viewers"--and i wouldn't think you'd have a problem with any of that, so it just comes across as a bizarre double standard

unless you don't think they should warn people about those, either--in which case, uh, whatever
Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 12:08:16 PM by Verbatim


 
Luciana
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It's just that trigger was originally used as something to describe an uncontrollable mental emotional breakdown or something like that. Like a Vietnam veteran getting triggered by seeing a plane flying over head, or hearing loud fireworks going off.

Not "this may possibly offend you".

I'm not here to argue the meaning of the word. Just saying how I feel about it whenever I see it, and why I probably will never use it.


 
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fuck you
I'll probably watch this one because that titles interesting


 
Luciana
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Anyway, I'm sure I'll run into some double standard or dogmatic logic from this video like I did that other one which I wrote an essay on (to which you had nothing to say to because you more or less agreed with me. Which is annoying because it seems you make these threads to try and prove some point otherwise).


 
Verbatim
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It's just that trigger was originally used as something to describe an uncontrollable mental emotional breakdown or something like that. Like a Vietnam veteran getting triggered by seeing a plane flying over head, or hearing loud fireworks going off.

Not "this may possibly offend you".

I'm not here to argue the meaning of the word. Just saying how I feel about it whenever I see it, and why I probably will never use it.
It's still used in the medical sense--the most common trigger warnings you'll see are things like, "TW: Rape" or "TW: Abuse." It's not unheard of that a rape or domestic abuse victim would experience PTSD-like symptoms upon being reminded of their incident during a discussion of such sensitive topics, so trigger warnings allow those people to mentally prepare themselves for whatever emotional distress may incur from their accessing of the content. Or to avoid the content altogether.

Has it morphed into something else, like "this may possibly offend you"? I don't know, I'd have to see a few examples.


 
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Anyway, I'm sure I'll run into some double standard or dogmatic logic from this video like I did that other one which I wrote an essay on (to which you had nothing to say to because you more or less agreed with me. Which is annoying because it seems you make these threads to try and prove some point otherwise).
I post all of Anita's Tropes vs. Women videos here whether I agree with their contents or not, for two reasons: 1.) I love a good discussion of feminism every once in awhile, and these videos are released at a slow enough pace to where the subject never really becomes stale or tiresome, and 2.) Because it gets under the right people's skin, and that amuses the hell out of me. I just love how people can't seem to reconcile their precious video games with something as innocuous as feminism (something I did at age 8).

I'm glad to actually have the discussion with those who are willing to have it. But no, just because I post something Anita-related doesn't mean I agree with her on everything she's saying. I just like the conversation that happens afterward--and if I can offend some conservatards along the way, then all the better.
Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 12:39:48 PM by Verbatim


 
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Goodness gracious, great balls of lightning!
This is my 4th time asking you and you still haven't responded, is it true that Anita Sarkeesian made a porno when she was in college?


 
 
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<.<
I know the word trigger is an actual medical term or whatever used now


but it still annoys me because of how it first cropped up on the internet. All I can think of is tumblrites. I'll watch later I guess.
[teeth grinding]

I mean the later posts ITT sorted the above out but the reason trigger warnings piss me off is because it's yoinking psychiatric terminology to make hurt feelings seem more important than they really are. The wording there made it seem like it became a medical term because of the recent spamming of it <_<

Appropriate use of them is something I'm still undecided on because of the whole, you shouldn't insulate yourself from the world or vis-versa approach to psychology (as in, if you have a problem - tackle it and move on with your life). But how the word got proliferated everywhere and is now a borderline joke doesn't exactly help improve awareness/understanding of PTSD among the general populace.

/rant


 
Verbatim
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This is my 4th time asking you and you still haven't responded, is it true that Anita Sarkeesian made a porno when she was in college?
I don't really know anything about her beyond what she's posted on her channel and some of her tweets, so I don't know.

Probably not.
Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 12:43:22 PM by Verbatim


 
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Goodness gracious, great balls of lightning!
This is my 4th time asking you and you still haven't responded, is it true that Anita Sarkeesian made a porno when she was in college?
I don't really know anything about her beyond what she's posted on her channel and some of her tweets, so I don't know.
THE PLOT THICKENS


 
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You will find out who you are not a thousand times, before you ever discover who you are. I hope you find peace in yourself and learn to love instead of hate.
Are character models for non-rpg games really that important? I don't go into these kinds of games to make them my own because I understand they're linear in terms of the protagonist.


 
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You either die a hero or live long enough to become Mythic..
I'm just gonna note that I never even noticed that Bioshock Infinite had female enemies, even though I loved using melee in that game.

It really should stay that way, you SHOULDN'T have to notice it.

Which in a way is what she was trying to get across.

Some other things to point out.

-In Saints Row The Third's Whored mode, there is also men in straps with dildos chasing your character around. To say that only women are treated that way in a wacky game like Saints Row the Third is incorrect.
-With Unity, I don't have much to say other than the fact that you still play the main character even in co-op, and with historical games it really isn't THAT surprising that women in France during the era may or may not have been able to join the Assassins, even if there is a woman on the templars. However the excuse that it would be too much work is utter bullshit.
-The new Street Fighter still kinda sexualizes the females, just saying.

Other than that, i'm good.
Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 01:10:06 PM by Pippen


 
Verbatim
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I'm just gonna not that I never even noticed that Bioshock Infinite had female enemies, even though I loved using melee in that game.

It really should stay that way, you SHOULDN'T have to notice it.

Which in a way is what she was trying to get across.

Some other things to point out.

-In Saints Row The Third's Whored mode, there is also men in straps with dildos chasing your character around. To say that only women are treated that way in a wacky game like Saints Row the Third is incorrect.
-With Unity, I don't have much to say other than the fact that you still play the main character even in co-op, and with historical games it really isn't THAT surprising that women in France during the era may or may not have been able to join the Assassins, even if there is a woman on the templars. However the excuse that it would be too much work is utter bullshit.
-The new Street Fighter still kinda sexualizes the females, just saying.

Other than that, i'm good.
Fair points, but with regards to Street Fighter, the topic of the video has more to do with equal representation of female characters in games--not as much the sexualization of them. I mean, she kinda went into that a little, but it wasn't the main focus. Mainly, she was just happy that a game like Street Fighter has a selection of strong female characters to choose from that can go toe-to-toe with the male characters.

Personally, being a big fan of the series, I'm glad she gave it a tip of the hat in that regard. But yes, in terms of how the females are portrayed, Capcom could certainly do better.


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Just message me.
Vien 'Quitonm#1598 is my discord
Let's bitch about Gears of War for making everyone beefy.


 
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Are character models for non-rpg games really that important? I don't go into these kinds of games to make them my own because I understand they're linear in terms of the protagonist.
Neither do I, necessarily, but I don't think we can speak for everyone. Either way, she's right in stating that it's not a lot to ask.


 
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Goodness gracious, great balls of lightning!
Let's bitch about Gears of War for making everyone beefy.
And handsome af


 
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Let's bitch about Gears of War for making everyone beefy.
And handsome af

I don't see handsome there.


 
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You either die a hero or live long enough to become Mythic..
I'm just gonna not that I never even noticed that Bioshock Infinite had female enemies, even though I loved using melee in that game.

It really should stay that way, you SHOULDN'T have to notice it.

Which in a way is what she was trying to get across.

Some other things to point out.

-In Saints Row The Third's Whored mode, there is also men in straps with dildos chasing your character around. To say that only women are treated that way in a wacky game like Saints Row the Third is incorrect.
-With Unity, I don't have much to say other than the fact that you still play the main character even in co-op, and with historical games it really isn't THAT surprising that women in France during the era may or may not have been able to join the Assassins, even if there is a woman on the templars. However the excuse that it would be too much work is utter bullshit.
-The new Street Fighter still kinda sexualizes the females, just saying.

Other than that, i'm good.
Fair points, but with regards to Street Fighter, the topic of the video has more to do with equal representation of female characters in games--not as much the sexualization of them. I mean, she kinda went into that a little, but it wasn't the main focus. Mainly, she was just happy that a game like Street Fighter has a selection of strong female characters to choose from that can go toe-to-toe with the male characters.

Personally, being a big fan of the series, I'm glad she gave it a tip of the hat in that regard. But yes, in terms of how the females are portrayed, Capcom could certainly do better.

It's Capcom so I don't expect they will fix the portrayal.

Usually I would ignore these types of videos but I did get "triggered" in the way of what Ubisoft did.

"There was too much work so we didn't do it"
BULLSHIT.
A good animator could take a day or two just editing animations to make them work with a female model. Almost 90% of the animations in Assassin's Creed can stay the same whether or not there was a male or female. Mainly idle, walking, and running animations are the biggest issues when dealing between female and male models.

I couldn't ignore that shit.


 
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You either die a hero or live long enough to become Mythic..
Now that being said, Assassin's Creed would have to also get the voice actor to do the multiplayer character's voice acting right? Oh that's soooo horrible how could this triple A company that's able to make 3-4 games at a time ever afford one actor to do under 100 lines?

That is nowhere near as bad as Bioware's FemShep, who has to do THOUSANDS of lines, over three games! Yet Bioware still did it, and does it with every single damn game they do.

It's really gonna kill everyone and fuck up everything that they have to add in ONE female model, SOME different animations and ONE voice actor to add in a female character in the multiplayer mode.

Ugh.


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All this boils down to is Ubisoft being a lazy/shitty developer and the fact that the target market is teenage boys

Didn't read te whole thing just the bits about ass creed, and about the difference between violence against women and violence that just happens to be against women


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IMO any game with character customization should allow you to be a male or female though. Even if it's just female faces/hair/voices


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If I'm not here, I'm doing photography. Or I'm asleep. Or in lockdown. One of those three, anyway.

The current titlebar/avatar setup is just normal.
Ubisoft dumped themselves into a pit with that statement, particularly as they'd had female assassins/templars before (see Assasins Creed Blackflag or Brotherhood/Revelations). Even if it was "too much effort" to create new animations, a port of the old ones into the game would've probably covered it anyway.

Video made fair points, albeit the Saints Row complaint was kinda irrelevant.

It should be worth mentioning that Battlefield 4, whilst having no playable female characters, does feature female soldiers, one specifically that  is with you throughout most of the campaign. They did drop the ball multiplayer wise considering China, Russia and America do have female combatants, or at least accepting them for frontline combat.I can't imagine any will feature in Battlefield WW1 however, for obvious reasons.

Otherwise, not much to really discuss. Women can be animated fine without sexualising them, and it's devs for the most part sacrificing it altogether for more time on more important features given most AAA titles are on yearly schedules.
Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 01:58:57 PM by PsygnIrish


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Thoughts are garbled. I'll see if I get my point across.

The start of the article makes me think about another mentality that's seemed to pop up a bit lately. It's getting more common for video games to give a choice to players about who they feel like playing as. Not a bad thing if it's done well enough.

But suddenly there seems to be a lot more of a backlash or complaints when a game doesn't offer such a choice. I know a little bit about 3d modeling, and I know that while Ubisoft's claims of the complexity of making another model are over the top a bit, they still do present a case. Models take time and resources to make. That's time, and resources that the devs have choice over. Not us.

Again, games today are more influenced by the fanbase through feedback, but ultimately the choice still comes down to the devs. You might call Ubi's decision lazy, but I feel like the critisism around their choice is being given for the wrong reasons. They're being booed because they didn't include the other sex.

It's important, I think, to remember that while progress is nice, the things we leave behind shouldn't outright be forgotten as if they're completely antiques. If a dev wants to make a game with only guys, or only ladies, set in a central role, then it's in their call in the interests of artistic freedom.



 
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I always see her mention Ubisoft. Not so much as a insult to her, but it just more or less proves Ubisoft is a pretty bad company. Be it for the reasons they gave about making women in games, or just... their games in general.


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If it were a matter of making another skin and slapping it on, sure. But ACUnity already launched in a downright broken state, so I can believe the devs started cutting corners to meet the deadline.


 
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Honestly, it'd have been more of an insult to throw a women in a broken game like ACUnity than without.


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His eyebrows sparkling, his white beard hangs down to his chest. The thatched mats, spread outside his chise, spread softly, his splendid attos. He polishes, cross-legged, his makiri, with his eyes completely absorbed.

He is Ainu.

The god of Ainu Mosir, Ae-Oine Kamuy, descendant of Okiku-Rumi, He perishes, a living corpse. The summers day, the white sunlight, unabrushed, ends simply through his breath alone.
Only thing I'd point out is that Whored Mode also features male gimps and such-- the game handles sexuality with the maturity of a 13 year old boy, but it does it equally to men and women.

Besides that, no real disagreements. Ubisoft a shit.


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Let's bitch about Gears of War for making everyone beefy.
And handsome af

I don't see handsome there.
opinion